Ask the casino dealer....

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Glad you’re here, Thalia. I’ve long been fascinated by the casino industry.

I always feel sorry for dealers staring off into space (and the Wheel is almost always in that state). What’s the longest you’ve stayed idle?

I hear that craps is the pinnacle – requires the most training. I’m amazed at how they guys do what they do, with chips flying everywhere and dozens of different payouts to know.

My favorite casino doesn’t pool tips. It seems like the competition to work the $100 blackjack table would be intense, doesn’t it?

My cheating story (told every time there’s a gambling thread…so don’t stop me if you’ve heard this one): back in the days of lo-tech blackjack tables, whenever a dealer had a 10 showing, s/he would need to peek at the hole card to see if he had a blackjack. A friend was playing at Barney’s at Lake Tahoe (long since gone) late at night, and the dealer started giving him advice when the dealer had a 10 showing…like “I wouldn’t hit if I was you” (meaning that he’d peeked and seen a 6).

22

I’ve heard from a shady acquaintance that while spinning roulette and talking to the dealer if you ask him “how many years he’s been spinning” he’ll answer with a number that tells you in what range he can intentionally land in. So say he says 5, a couple of spins later you can bet a row of 5 continuous numbers (on the wheel or board, Im not sure if real roulette wheels are ordered or random) and be nearly assured of winning, and of course you would generously tip said roulette spinner.
Seems sort of crooked, and perhaps something one would only see at a particularly shady casino (the sort this particular guy would frequent), but have you ever even heard of something like this?

23

[QUOTE=GreedySmurf]
Just a question around how you physically accept the tips players give to you.

From doco’s and what I’ve seen from personal experience, dealers have specific movements they have to make with their hands to be clearly seen by the cameras to not be pocketing anything, right?

So what do you do with the chips a player gives you for a tip? Is there a little section to put tips which clearly indicates thats what it is, and then you collect them at the end of yuor shift at the table? I guess basically what do you do so the cameras know you are collecting a tip and not trying to steal from the house?
[/QUOTE]

It’s called “clearing your hands”, not a very creative title. Essentially, whenever you touch anything of monetary value, you have to put your palms face up for the cameras. Or, if you’re going to touch your body, you have to clear your hands as well. It gets embarrassing when you’re doing it at the bank, or at the grocery store. You feel like a pretty big tool!

At my casino, all the dealers pool tips, so you just put them in a box locked to the table. Once daily, a team of three dealers goes around and gathers up all the chips, counts them, racks them up and brings them to the cage. The cage counts, and credits the dealers how ever much it is, and then we get an hourly rate of tips added to our pay. And yes, it is taxed. :frowning:

24

[QUOTE=jsc1953]
Glad you’re here, Thalia. I’ve long been fascinated by the casino industry.

I always feel sorry for dealers staring off into space (and the Wheel is almost always in that state). What’s the longest you’ve stayed idle?
[/quote]

I’ve gone an entire 8 hour shift without touching a card, or the roulette wheel. It’s mind numbing. I often stare at the letters of the names of slot machines, and see how many new words I can make up. It makes the hours just… crawl…by. On the plus side, every 60 min we work, we get a 20 min break, so I can’t bitch TOO loudly.

Yeah, you can’t do that anymore. There are windows in the table, with little mirrors in them that will only reveal if there is a 10 or face underneath, or will only reveal an ace if there is a face or 10 up, based on the position of the numbers in the top corner of the cards. If you look at a blackjack deck, you can see the numbers aren’t all in the same spot. So basically, you can only see if you have a blackjack or not, and you can’t tell what the hole (card facing down) card is.

25

[QUOTE=enigm4tic]
I’ve heard from a shady acquaintance that while spinning roulette and talking to the dealer if you ask him “how many years he’s been spinning” he’ll answer with a number that tells you in what range he can intentionally land in. So say he says 5, a couple of spins later you can bet a row of 5 continuous numbers (on the wheel or board, Im not sure if real roulette wheels are ordered or random) and be nearly assured of winning, and of course you would generously tip said roulette spinner.
Seems sort of crooked, and perhaps something one would only see at a particularly shady casino (the sort this particular guy would frequent), but have you ever even heard of something like this?
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I’m gonna chalk this up to myth. Good roulette dealers can aim for sections at best, but it is really just random. Even if you can aim for an area of the wheel, you can’t ever predict the exact number. There’s just way too many variables. For instance, each spin you alternate the direction that the wheel is spinning, as well as the direction you spin the ball around the wheel (not true for all casinos). You also have to vary the speed of the wheel, and the speed of your spin, or else your boss will say something to you. Plus, the ball bounces so much before it settles in a number. At most you can aim for a section, and a section being roughly a quarter of the wheel, but that’s it.

26

[QUOTE=Northern Thalia]
Keeping your own tips must force people to dial down the bitchy eh?
[/quote]
Oh hell no. Customers eat it up. I don’t so much get to dish it out myself since I’m a guy but a lot of the female dealers can really get going. :smiley:

We deal all of them every day. We just push every 20 minutes through all the tables until it’s your time to go home. This way the “suck” is spread evenly.

27

[QUOTE=Northern Thalia]
I’ve had a guy bring a HUUUUUGE wad of $5 bills. He pulls them out, and I’m like, you’ve GOT to be kidding me. So I lay them all out, and when there’s a large amount of bills, I have to call my boss over, to verify the amount, so I can lay out more bills and keep counting. Anyway, the majority of them turned out to be counterfeit, so he got arrested at the table. It was oh so awesome.
[/QUOTE]
SWEET!!!

I had a guy do this legitimately. He wanted to cash in $4,000…all in 20 dollar bills. So I start laying them out, checking a couple every once in a while for the security strip and they were all there. I should add that this guy was a regular customer so if we hadn’t caught him by now we’ve got bigger problems on our hands. So I can only cash $2,000 at a time due to lack or room on the table. So I lay out $2000 and call my floor manager over.

I told him I was changing $2000, and he asks me, “Did you check them?” I said, “Yeah, spot checked them.” He says, “No, you need to check all bills $20 and higher.”

:dubious: “There’s going to be TWO HUNDRED OF THE GOD DAMN THINGS?!?!?! You want me to check each individual bill?”

So this poor dude comes up to the table ready to play and my idiot floor manager makes him wait FIFTEEN FARKING MINUTES while we scrutinize every one of this guy’s bills. It was absolutely ridiculous.

Ouch. :frowning: At least we have TVs around the pit that show the day’s football games. Management doesn’t want us watching them but as far as I’m concerned if they were doing their job I’d have people to deal to anyway.

28

[QUOTE=Cyberhwk]

Ouch. :frowning: At least we have TVs around the pit that show the day’s football games. Management doesn’t want us watching them but as far as I’m concerned if they were doing their job I’d have people to deal to anyway.
[/QUOTE]

The worst part is, you spend it sitting at locked tables in the poker pit. The pits basically hide poker dealers in there, so that in case ppl show up to play, there are dealers. But, if no one shows, you sit and wait. And some pits, for some reason, make it so there’s a couple rotations of all live tables, and one dead rotation. Which I occasionally sit in… 8 hours at a time. :dubious:

29

Any magicians/slight-of-hand practitioners every come by? Do you have a list of banned people?

30

Not sure whether this is legitimate thread necromancy, but what do dealers think of blackjack card counters?

31

[QUOTE=aptronym]
Not sure whether this is legitimate thread necromancy, but what do dealers think of blackjack card counters?
[/QUOTE]
For me it depends. If they’re having fun, nice to other customers and tipping something I’ll feign ignorance as long as they’re keeping it within reason (just don’t take us for TOO much).

Unfortunately, those that try to do it for money are generally among the most paranoid, and cantankerous people ever. I narc them out every time.

The VAST majority of those that try to count cards simply have no idea what the hell they’re doing. They don’t keep penetration in mind, they don’t use index numbers, they flat out GUESS on the composition dependent basic strategy variations, never take insurance…they’re just no good.

Funny to watch them try though.

32

Appleciders was right with her first guess. I’m the poker dealer. :slight_smile:

Just FYI, in our poker room, the ONLY tips we share are multi-table tournaments. No card room in Florida that I am aware of pools tips. Please, if you like your dealer, ask.

The upside of dealing with assholes when you don’t pool is that the next dealer might get along great with them and get tipped. It’s all personal, both good and bad.

8 hours without touching a card? Egads! Our room is busy enough you might go an hour, but really, not much longer than that. Our boss believes in dead spreads (dealers sitting at a table trying to stay awake). Some rooms have the dealers that are “up” be off somewhere where they can be reached easily if they are needed. The good part of that system is that you can do whatever the heck you want when you are “up.” and you don’t have to pretend like every person that walks past and says “You look lonely.” is funny.

And FYI, tips are the ONLY thing that make the job worthwhile. We make the same as waiters hourly. You pay my mortgage, and I don’t forget it.

33

What exactly is the casinos’ beef with card counting?
They control all the odds to all the games. If they think the odds are not in their favor, they can just add a tie-breaker, like they do adding the green to roulette. Why try to make out like people are cheating when they play the odds the same way the casino does?

34

OK, how would deal with a person like my mother who has never played a game with a dealer because she is intimidated? She’ll spend hours at the slots or betting sports/horses, but won’t player a game where she’d have to interact with a dealer.

I know she knows the rules of most casino games 'cause she has software which simulates table games.

I’ve told her she should just sit down and ask the dealer if she has any questions.

35

Do you have an idea what they’re doing? It’s a common belief among card counters that dealers don’t even know basic strategy (hitting A7 vs. dealer 9-A most commonly cited), much less how “real” card counting works. Is that true, true for most, true for a few, or an outright lie to lull people into a false sense of superiority?

[QUOTE=knowletter]
They control all the odds to all the games. If they think the odds are not in their favor, they can just add a tie-breaker, like they do adding the green to roulette.
[/QUOTE]
They already do this, such as switching to Dealer Hits Soft 17 (which favors the house, although few people realize it). They even have countermeasures that are specific to card counters, such as limiting mid-shoe entry and limiting shoe penetration.

Honestly, I don’t think they do. Despite all the whining from card counters, all the opinions I’ve heard from casino employees seem to parallel Cyberhwk’s opinion - as long as they don’t get shit from their boss about losing too much, they couldn’t care less. Only the investigation agencies lump card counters and cheaters together, and if you’re on a blacklist, you’ve already broken the first rule.

36

In my state the casinos only allow slots, but these new electronic table games from Shufflemaster are one way to get around the law. I think its mainly blackjack, but offers from $5 to $25 minimum bets.

Do you have these in Canada and are you worried that casinos are going to start moving in this direction in the future?

37

Here’s a question: I want to learn to deal craps. In order to teach myself and my friends, I built a pit–a 4’ by 6’ pit, and bought a bunch of chips. Then I went through and tried to memorize the payouts and mechanically dealt them out when we were playing to learn before we actually lost our cash at the casino. :smiley:

Is there an easier way to learn the payouts? Are there mnemonics y’all use?

Tripler
I always thought that being able to deal would help me understand the game to play better.

38

[QUOTE=Tripler]
Are there mnemonics y’all use?
[/QUOTE]
This is only helpful for a handful of math-minded people, but the odds bets for 4/10, 5/9, and 6/8 pay out 6:3, 6:4, and 6:5 respectively. The place bets on the corresponding numbers are then 9:5, 7:5, and 7:6 (note that the last two are simply x+1:y+1 where x:y is the odds bet and most people buy, rather than place, the bets for 4/10 because you get better odds).

39

[QUOTE=knowletter]
What exactly is the casinos’ beef with card counting?
They control all the odds to all the games. If they think the odds are not in their favor, they can just add a tie-breaker, like they do adding the green to roulette. Why try to make out like people are cheating when they play the odds the same way the casino does?
[/QUOTE]
Counting cards isn’t cheating. You’re free to play the game we provide or you’re free not to. We’re free to let you play or reserve the right to NOT let you play, just like every other business.

But since you asked sure we could play it straight up. Eight deck, 50% penetration, split only once, double on 10 & 11 only, no double after split, blackjacks only pay 6-to-5. This has a house advantage of ~2.36% according to Wizard of Odds and though I’m not not an expert, am PRETTY sure it’s not countable. Hell it’s hardly even PLAYABLE.

It’s not often you see players wanting WORSE games in the casino, but to each their own I guess. Back off a small minority of customers or give EVERY customer an even worse blackjack game? Not a hard decision.

[QUOTE=dalej42]
I’ve told her she should just sit down and ask the dealer if she has any questions.
[/QUOTE]
Yep. We get noobs all the time. Try to find an empty table as many times, more experienced customers tend to get frustrated with people that don’t know how to play. At a dead table she’s free to take all the time she wants.

Also, tell her to not be intimidated by staff. We have to notify different people about different actions. If something happens and she messes up don’t worry. It’s nothing that hasn’t happened at least ten trillion times before. It’s just something we have to do. Tell her to not worry.

[QUOTE=aptronym]
Do you have an idea what they’re doing? It’s a common belief among card counters that dealers don’t even know basic strategy (hitting A7 vs. dealer 9-A most commonly cited), much less how “real” card counting works.Is that true, true for most, true for a few, or an outright lie to lull people into a false sense of superiority?
[/QUOTE]
True for almost all. I’ve actually given up trying to discuss strategy with most coworkers. Most fall into the exact same pitfalls as customers. They’re more likely to “split all aces and eights” just by reflex, but still fall for the same myths (i.e. “third base took the bust card,” or “players coming in screwed up the shoe.”)

As for myself, I can’t answer that. I’m pretty sure I got ~90% of the basic strategy down. Still sometimes hazy on splitting the middle pairs and sometimes can’t bring myself to double on A-8 vs. 6 (on multi-deck), but I think I’ve got a pretty good grip on it. Here’s the strategy I use. The expectation tables were an eye opener. Mostly that a player is behind on any 12-16 no matter WHAT the dealer has up, even a six. :eek:

[QUOTE=Tripler]
Is there an easier way to learn the payouts? Are there mnemonics y’all use?
[/QUOTE]
Memorize what odds the bets pay, or to figure out the payouts? I don’t deal craps.

As for the payouts…

Learn to break down the bet into groups that you CAN easily figure out.

Say you have to pay 7-to-1 on $137.50.

$100 X 7 = $700 (Put out seven $100 chips)
$30 X 7 = $210 (Put out two more $100 chips and two $5 chips)
$7 X 7 = $49 (Put out nine more $5 chips and four $1 chips).
$.50 X 7 = $3.50 (Put out three 1 chips and one .50 chip)

Count the value of all your chips = $962.50

Also think of bets in “units.” I’m not paying “$15,” I’m paying “three red chips.” So a bet like $31 (one green, one red, one white), is no problem paying it 4-to-1 because it just becomes “four green, four red, four white.”

There’s no replacement for knowing your multiplication tables. :slight_smile:

40

Do Craps players ever get into fights about who placed the bet that you just paid off? What does the casino do about it? Can you get a booth review to see who actually put the chips down? It seems to me to be impossible to remember who put what chips down on a craps table, so the house probably doesn’t try.