Ask the "crazy" settler

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
81

As Lemur866 said, I do not support unilateral annexation of the West Bank. I think we should hold on to it until we can establish new borders by way of a peace agreement. And yes, I think that the settlements probably shouldn’t have been established in the first place, but now that they’re here, they have to be taken into account.

We have a saying here (actually an old car insurance company slogan, but whatever): “Don’t be right, be smart”. That’s the problem here, I think: too many people on all sides are wasting time talking about rights and all other kinds of woulda-coulda-shouldas, instead of actually sitting down and reaching an agreement based on the way things actually are.

Thankfully, they’ve been making some progress lately. I don’t have much confidence in the clowns running my country, but even they can do something right now and again.

82

Why would you fight someone whose cause was moral?

And why do “Aboriginals” have a right to your house? I’m Canadian too. They have no right to my house. I was born here. I’m as a native a Canadian as any human who has ever lived. If you were born here then so are you, and if you’re a naturalized citizen then legally you’re equal to me anyway.

With due respect, that, too, is a crock of shit. Assigning the right to own land to people because they really want to is flatly absurd.

Israel has the right to exist because it does; there’s no denying that the State of Israel constitutes a sovereign nation now, built with blood, sweat and tears, populated by people who want it to exist and strongly feel its existence is part of their safety and right to self-determination, with many native-born citizens, and contesting its right to exist is no longer a reasonable position. But to argue that they further should get to keep all of the “Biblical” lands, as our OP as suggested, and assign that right to no argument more convincing than “because we’ve always wanted it” is the height of insanity. We can’t run the world that way.

I certainly don’t have any easy answers to the Israel/Palestinian problem (in part because it involves many other states who see value in fomenting Jew-hating and funding terrorism) but the answer sure as hell isn’t “'Cause God gave it to us.”

Whaaaaa?

But the Jews were themselves conquered. So their right to conquest must therefore be extinguished. Are you only allowed to conquer something once?

You’re just trying to avoid DtC’s unassailable point; if the “right to conquest” gives Israel rights over land they have conquered then, if the rules are the same for everyone, a successful pana-Arab conquest of Israel would give them right of conquest over Israel. If, on the other hand, you are taking the absolutely bizarre position that you’re only allowed to own land once and being conquered negates future right of conquest, then the Jews, having been quite convincingly conquered by the Romans, don’t get takeback rights. Of course, at this point you’re just making shit up, but even making shit up you can’t seem to stay consistent.

The rules are the same for everyone. Don’t get squeamish if it means the wrong side might use them to their advantage.

83

The thought of moving to Israel has crossed my mind, what was the first step you made? And how did you decide where you wanted to live? Did a settlement seem like a better idea to you than a city or a Kibbutz?

84

Point taken, but the principle is the same. We fight wars, and we redraw borders all the time. It’s not a matter of “right”, it’s a cold hard fact of existence. When we have a world government, then maybe things will change.

85

It sounds like you lived in America for quite awhile, so you’re probably familiar with what non-Israeli’s think life in Israel is like. After your move, what are some of the things that you fond were wrong about the stereotypical outsiders view?

Also, given how much uhhhh let’s call it conviction that some people have about the Israel/Palestine issue, how often do you have to deal with cranky beggars in tubs? For example, if you travel outside Israel do you often run into problems like this? Have you gotten used to being called a criminal by people halfway around the world yet?

86

I have a few random questions:

  1. Do Israeli Jews look different than American Jews? Can you tell the difference between an Israeli-Jew and an Israeli-Arab?
  2. Is marijuana as accessible there as it is in the U.S? More? Less? If you don’t know, just give me a guess.
  3. How diverse is Israel? Do you see Asians? Blacks? Gays?
  4. Are you afraid for your safety? (You know, a wayward missle or something)
  5. Are the police friendly in Israel like they are in the U.S?
  6. What season is it in Israel now?
  7. What do Israelis typically eat for breakfast? Pancakes? (Turkey) Sausage? Potatoes? Orange juice?
  8. How does Israel have a judiciary if there is no Constitution to interpret?
  9. Do you hear a lot about the U.S in Israel? Do most Israelis understand or speak English?
87

Well, they may not have the right, but they have the ability.

(Sorta the reverse of Ron White’s bit about getting in trouble with the cops: "At that point, I had the right to remain silent. <sip of Scotch> But I didn’t have the ability.)

88

Israelis joke about being the 51st state, or the 6th burrough of NYC. English is widely spoken, and is one of the 3 official languages, along with Hebrew and Arabic. Northern hemisphere, so same seasons as the US. Climate a bit like CA.

89

Did the dog get to go with you?

90

The first thing we did was go to the Jewish Agency shaliach and open a tik. Then we just started researching places to live and job opportunities. And we spoke to lots and lots of people who made aliyah before us, especially a family of very close friends who were our inspiration to make aliyah.

I came to Israel by myself about 1 1/2 years before we made aliyah, and did some job research and had some informational interviews. We came as a family on a pilot trip to check out the places on our short list of places to live. I also had some more employment meetings.

We looked most at the places where we thought our kids would be happiest. As anyone who has made aliyah with teenagers will tell you, one unhappy teenager can ruin aliyah for the entire family.

We also made sure that all 3 kids were OK with our decision to come.

91

I know that many Americans think that all of Israel is under constant attack, and that Israelis spend most of their time cringing in shelters. They tend to think this is a 3rd world country without electricity or running water. We knew this wasn’t true before we came, but people are surprised to hear that we live a normal life. My parents came to visit earlier this year; it was the first time they’d been in Israel in 25 or so years. They were quite surprised to see we weren’t living on a hilltop somewhere in a caravan.

I’ve only been outside of Israel once in the time we’ve been here; I flew Turkish Air back and forth to America. I didn’t have any problems; it’s not like I wore a t shirt that said “I live in Israel!” I entered and left the U.S. on my American passport, so I didn’t have to deal with visas. And other than here, nobody has called me a criminal.

92

If they are dressed the same, not always.

I have no clue at all. I couldn’t even take a guess.

There are Asians here - Filipinos dominate the private home health care market. There are African refugees here, and a sect of Black “Jews” as well. There are gays, but they don’t usually stand out.

In these parts, more afraid of rocks coming through the car windows, or Molotov cocktails being thrown at cars. We have a security fence around the yishuv, and armed guards at the gates. There is an armed security patrol that makes the rounds. There’s also an emergency response squad that can be alerted for emergencies. Weapons (usually sidearms) are carried openly, and there always a few guys from the emergency squad who carry their rifles with them.

I guess it depends on the specific officer, just like in the U.S. Some are, some not.

Summer heading into fall.

Breads, cheeses, rolls, salad, cereal. The staple breakfast for kids is a roll and shoko (chocolate milk in a bag). There is a long line of kids buying this stuff every morning at the makolet (corner store). The cool thing about the makolet is we can run a tab there.

Still working on how the whole judiciary works here. I’ll get back to you on this one.

Of course - Obama is routinely praised or hated here, depending on the medial outlet. But yes, we do hear a lot of U.S. news. Almost all of the young Israelis speak some English; I think they start learning 4th grade. The older people may not speak it at all.

93

Yes,it was my job to walk her between sundown and sunup.

94

[quote=“Honesty, post:86, topic:553889”]

If I may, I could answer these questions myself (I’ve lived in the U.S. for several years, so I could provide some perspective).

  1. Israeli Jews are much more diverse than American Jews - while most American Jews come from Eastern and Central Europe, Israelis come from such diverse places as North Africa, Ethiopia, Russia, Iran, the Balkans, India and Georgia (the one in the Caucasus). Even the Ashkenazi Jews with heritage identical to their American counterparts tend to have much better tans.

As for Israeli Arabs - sometimes you can tell them apart from Jews by their looks, sometimes you can’t. Very few of them speak accentless Hebrew, though.

  1. I don’t partake myself, but marijuana is used extensively here - maybe not as much as in the U.S., but it’s not uncommon; plenty of my friends use on occasion. I’d say that it’s not a popular among teenagers as it is in the States; it’s mainly a 20- and 30something pastime.

  2. Besides black and Asian Jews, Israel has plenty of immigrant workers, mostly Africans, Chinese and Filipinos (the latter completely dominating the caregiver profession). My son has several African and Chinese kids in his kindergarten.

As for gays - sure. Tel Aviv in particular has a very vibrant gay culture; I have several rainbow flags hanging out windows on my block alone. There are plenty of celebrities out of the closet… and gays are allowed to serve openly in the military.

Of course, some parts of Israel are more gay-friendly than others - in this like in many other things, Israel is like the U.S. compressed to the size of New Jersey.

  1. Nah. Terrorism is way down in recent years, and crime rates are still low. Besides, Israelis are very good at compartmentalizing.

  2. I’d say that cops are even friendlier, or maybe it’s just that they’re less formal. Israelis tend not to be impressed by authority.

  3. It’s officially autumn now, although the temperatures aren’t really that much different than a month ago. I’d say we still have a good 2 months of T-shirt weather, at least.

  4. The traditional Israeli breakfast consists of bread and cheese (generally white cheeses like cottage cheese), eggs and tomato and cucumber salad, finely chopped; I suspect most people just eat cornflakes these days.

  5. The Israeli judicial system is based on the British, which also doesn’t have a constitution; they seem to make it work. Judges rule based on the law, on precedent and on "universal principles - the Supreme Court has an extraordinary amount of power and leeway, and tends to be quite liberal.

  6. Israelis follow U.S. culture and politics very closely. Most of the foreign shows on TV are American - undubbed - as is most foreign music. The “51st State” comment mentioned above is something we joke about a lot; Israelis definitely have a higher opinion of Americans than they have of, say, Europeans.

Most Israelis speak and read English - I read somewhere that after the Netherlands, Israel has highest relative amount of English speakers of anywhere in the world (excluding English-speaking countries, of course). English is considered the second most important subject in high school, after math, and many of the books and articles I was assigned in college were in untranslated English.

95

** Shinna Minna Ma**, did you speak Hebrew before you moved there? Is the Hebrew in Israel different from that you learned (assuming you did)?

I had a professor of Old Testment who said he triggered gales of merriment every time he tried to speak Hebrew in Israel, but he could read the newspapers just fine.

Regards,
Shodan

96

My Hebrew, quite frankly, is atrocious. I live in a somewhat Anglo area and I work with Anglos, so during the day I have few chances to speak Hebrew other than to the bus drivers or to the guy who runs the makolet. I can make doctor appointments and ask directions. If I go to a party, I would sound like a 3 year old.

My kids Hebrew is impressive. When was I most impressed? When I saw them Facebooking and texting in Hebrew. They roll their eyes when they hear me speaking. I’ve appointed them my official translators.

97

Shodam, I should add that even if I knew the vocabulary well, I would never sound like a real Israeli. One of the things I love to do here is listen to the little kids speak Hebrew. I don’t even think my kids will ever sound like real Israelis, because they were too old to pick up the proper pronunciations of the “rolling resh.”

98

Perhaps you could tell us what makes Israeli law applicable outside of Israel? :dubious:

Does this “Israeli law” you speak of have anything to say about possession of stolen property?

Initially. They are confirmed by peace treaties, based on a mutual recognition of their location and by a mutual recognition of the peoples on both sides to live with those borders in peace. Until that happens, they are merely lines of occupation.

You do realize that cleans up anything anyone might say about the Romans or Ottomans or even the British, don’t you?

What does “the greater biblical Israel” consist of? Where are its borders, and what is their biblical basis?

I would be most happy if it would end. How that would happen, I honestly can’t say.
[/quote]
Can you honestly say you’re part of the solution, not part of the problem?

Know what? You LIVE outside of Israel.

99

Because my cause is moral as well. Issues do not always resolve into black and white .

Your right and my right has been established by the Canadian/British government and no higher authority. They assumed that authority by putting the indigenous population under duress. Our rights are limited to the right of the British Crown to take sovereignty overBritish North America

Its not about the right to own land. It is about the right to have jurisdiction over land . And it is not about simple desire to have jurisddiction over land, it is about the desire to recover jurisdiction over land.

If it is your style to inflate my position in order to argue against me, you can argue by yourself. I’m not opposed .

Who said that in this thread ?

The so called right of conquest only applies to 1967.That has not been extinguished

Your problem is that you see rights as a zero sum game over time. Furthermore, you see an Israeli annexation of the West Bank as stealing land, but you would have no problem if it was turned over to Jordon or Syria or even back to Turkey.
Frankly, I find that position anti-semetic.

Bring it on>;)

100

Probably the definition in Numbers 34:

Modern borders, that’s pretty much Israel, the Territories, and Lebanon, extending a little bit into Egypt and Syria, and not including the southern Negev.