Ask the dwarf (or little person, or almost any other term you want to use)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

whiterabbit, Thanks for this thread. Thanks, also, for remaining cool while fighting the ignorance of those who are telling you when and why not to be offended. :rolleyes: “Ask the” threads are a little risky for the OP, and I’m glad you are willing to take the risk.

If I may answer Hostile Dialect, IMO the difference between welcome attention and weird creepy fetishism is pretty great: the creepy fetishist does not really care about the person at all or care what he/she is like as a person – the fetishist is objectifying the person and is turned on/entertained/titillated by what he/she is, exclusively, rather than who he/she is. Granted, initial attraction is often physical, so initial attraction in the non-creepy setting is going to have something to do with what someone looks like, but it’s like a gate or something – if a potential love interest gets through the physical gate, then the non-creepy potential mate will want more/want to get to know the person, sees the potential mate AS a person and not merely as a [insert fetish here].

62

It seems like I should not be asking this questions but I am gonna anyhow. I need my ignorance to be beaten down.

Is it OK if my children stare. Lets say under the age of 8. I was never taught much in the line of social graces. From what I have picked up it seems that even if you see a person with a one in a million condition such as yourself or an unusual ailment you are to act as if nothing is out of the ordinary. I have watched many people attempt this this often with awkward results. If a child sees a LP for the first time and the first instinct is to stare, do you find that offensive? The child IMHO will learn more and be more accepting from watching you for a few brief moments rather than me repressing it and in a way shunning you. Now with the internet I can do all the staring I want and have been accustomed to just about any behavior or condition. I can walk by two girls enjoying a single cup at an outdoor bistro and be fine with a normal cursory glance, smile or nod. This is not the same for children. How much exactly do the extra looks or diverting eyes bother you. Form adults or children.

63

Whiterabbit
That’s interesting on the size limits. Is it purely height or do body proportions matter as well? The reason I ask is that I think I was married to a dwarf/LP for 22 years and it never occurred to me that she was a dwarf, just a very short person. (4’ 7") She seemed to be very well proportioned to me.

Regards

testy

64

I think the usages in and out of the LP community (such as it is) are different than usage in wider society. I didn’t know I technically qualify as a dwarf until I was 21, because I don’t have achondroplasia, and if I didn’t know, how the heck are other people supposed to. In the end it’s just a label, but it’s nice to find out that I do fit in somewhere.

LPA doesn’t consider proportion, and it’s not like they lay down the law on the definitions. I think theirs is a bit too broad (or high?) because there are people who are in the nearly 5 foot range simply because they’re short; and to be honest, once you get to 4’10" your functioning in the world is very different. The old divisions between proportionate and disproportionate people aren’t considered, though there are far fewer proportionate people (at least those with hormone deficiencies) than there used to be because they’re caught and treated young. I once met a woman with kidney problems that had somehow restricted her growth, though.

fifty-six, kids are going to be curious. I too would far rather they take a good look instead of being yanked away and yelled at for what is perfectly natural curiosity. Young kids assume adult=tall, so when adult=not much taller than they are, it can be pretty startling. I quite often hear kids say something like, “Mom, look at her, she’s so short!” and my favorite parental response is something matter-of-fact like “Yes, she is. Some people are.” There’s no getting around the fact that I’m way short, and there’s no reason to punish your kid for daring to notice. I think I said this upthread, but if they ask me something about it I usually tell them that some people are waaaaay tall, like basketball players, and some people are waaaaaay short, like me, and most people are in the middle, like them! More detail isn’t really appropriate somewhere in public where we’re just passing by, but most kids “get” that explanation and are happy with it, and parents usually like it too. I would say just don’t make a big deal out of it, but don’t pretend I don’t exist, either.

I expect adults to know not to stare, but I also try to just ignore it if they do. I’m not one for confrontation. Some are, though, so be warned! And of course we all have bad days, being human.

65

Do you (or even most LP) belong to LP organizations? I know there is a huge convention once a year, but I’m thinking more in terms of a club that would meet every few weeks. If there isn’t this type of social club, would LP be interested in such a thing or do they prefer to not identify by like physical traits as opposed to like interests, etc.

66

I’ve heard that LPA thinks about 10% of the LP population belongs, and it’s not just a yearly convention, they have local chapters that have get-togethers and stuff all the time. I don’t belong right now because for various reasons it just isn’t for me; the social scene just doesn’t fit me. I admit it is nice to sometimes get together with people who really get it, but seeing as the only thing in common is stature, there’s no guarantee you’re going to get along. Frankly, I found it to be quite cliquish, based on type. I still think it’s a good organization, but I think they have some serious issues, so I choose not to belong.

67

I’m guessing most organizations, regardless of the type, tend to have cliquish elements. We belonged to a yacht club (very briefly), and it broke down along power boat/sailboat lines, then along boat size also. I suspect even professional organizations may be the same way - isn’t it nature to seek out like-minded folks?

But speaking of cliques, which reminded me of school kids which brings up a whole new set of issues, do you think you dealt with more than the normal share of crap in school because of your height?

68

Mea culpa: The actual quotation was:
When pygmies cast such long shadows, it must be late in the day. You can find it at the bottom of the page of this site:
http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/~jrs/plans.html

Of course, “pygmy” may be objected to as a racial epithet, but it is clear that it was only the height that was in question. Until I read this thread I had no idea whatever that “midget” and “dwarf” had such different connotations. I think that was not the case 70 years ago when I was getting started. I had the impression that midgets were in proportion and dwarves were not.

Incidentally, Judy-Lyn Del Rey, one of the most gifted science-fiction editors and wife of Lester, a fine Sci-Fi writer, was a dwarf. See

for something about her contributions to Sci-Fi.

69

Don’t get me started about middle school. It was horrible. I don’t want to think about it. It did get better in high school, though. Concerning cliques, I just don’t do well with people who tend to cliquishness. So I don’t worry about it.

Yeah, Judy-Lynn was from what I’ve heard a really cool person.

Years back “midget” and “dwarf” did have different meanings. Today “midget” has fallen out of use, it’s just that for some reason (probably because there aren’t many of us out there) it’s not common knowledge yet.

70

…

71

Midget vs. dwarf sounds a bit like Oriental vs. Asian (at least in North America, the former’s still common in the UK), where one is used for objects and the other for people.

I don’t think this has been mentioned, but I’ve read that the preferable plural for dwarf is ‘dwarfs,’ not ‘dwarves’ (too fairytale, I think).

72

OK. This is a simple concept. Make sure to read it very slowly so as not to injure yourself:

YOU
DO
NOT
GET
TO
DECIDE
WHICH
WORDS
ARE
OFFENSIVE
TO
OTHER
PEOPLE.

PERIOD.

If you missed a few words in there, make sure to start from the beginning and try again, but slower this time. It’s vitally important knowledge for living in the modern world, and we generally expect people over 12 to have at least some grasp of it. It’s probably not your fault that you don’t, though, and it’s not too late to catch up.

The antonym of “giant” is “dwarf”, not “midget”. So using this example:

only proves that you’re wrong, because the opposite (maybe you’ll know that word; it’s a little easier than “antonym”, I grant) of “giant” is “dwarf”, which is WHAT THE OP USED TO REFER TO HERSELF.

Really, man, try to keep up.

73

Is there an internet site for this community? A forum perhaps?

74

LPA has a site over here, but I haven’t been on it much for awhile and I know they were doing some work on it in the last few months. They should have a lot of info on dwarfism in general.

I did get a lot from them, both information and also the knowledge that if I’m an oddity, I’m not the only such oddity (physically, anyway, though this being the Dope there are some pretty odd people).

75

Did special accommodations have to be made for you in school? How about college, if you went to college?

76

Hmm. In school I think the biggest accomodation for me was excusing me from PE classes, until I moved to California my junior year of high school and they had “adaptive PE,” though my senior year I just took swimming instead. I had an elevator pass at that high school as well, since it had two floors. Perhaps Mama Tiger would remember better than I how much making sure my classes were within reach of each other and my locker was done; I’m pretty sure I remember being given extra time to get to them at least some of the time, but the specifics have long since disappeared from my memory.

I didn’t have any in college (which I have yet to finish, but that has nothing really to do with this thread), but if I’d needed extra time to get around or something I’d have been able to arrange it, probably directly with the professors. Other than sitting up front, and being able to sit during choir or voice lessons if I needed to, though it’s easier to breathe properly standing anyway, I don’t remember anything having to be changed.

For some people who are less mobile than I am they do require more extensive accomodations, and if I’d been at a big school I’m sure I’d have needed more time to get around, but what college I’ve had was at a small commuter school where everything was relatively close anyway.

77

I don’t really have any questions, but I just wanted to say my first boss when I started working at my current job was a dwarf. We spent a week in Houston together for training, and I worked with him for over a year. I’d say he was one of the favorite bosses I’ve ever had.

78

I don’t think snowbunny needed any adaptations in terms of time in high school; middle school was where it was necessary. For example, they would normally let all the kids out of the cafeteria after lunch at once, but after she got trampled (!!) one day, she was allowed to leave early. And after she missed her bus three days in a row, I called the principal directly and we made arrangements informally – she was allowed to leave her last class 5 minutes early. Her last class was at one end of a long, narrow building, her locker was at the other, and her bus was back at the end by her class! Plus the principal authorized snowbunny to slam his own son’s hand in his own locker after all the times he tried to to it to her. :rolleyes: Middle school kids are cruel, what can I say? In today’s world I’m sure there would be lawsuits involved, but in those days we just dealt with it.

But really, there were fewer problems in school than you might have expected. Kids with other forms of dwarfism often have to have more accomodations; for example, achons tend to be so much smaller that they often need special desks, etc. And kids who use scooters or wheelchairs obvious are a whole new ball game. But snowbunny wasn’t noticeably small as a young child – she didn’t start falling off the growth charts till she was 5, so up to that point we just knew her hips didn’t rotate properly (she still can’t sit cross-legged) and she had some congenital spinal curves.

Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner, Hostile Dialect, re portrayal of dwarfs on TV. I give a pass to any character on Boston Legal, since the entire show is a joke and, frankly, the dwarf character is no more obnoxious than any of the rest, IMO. But generally speaking, roles for dwarfs are few and far between except, as noted, at Christmastime. Someday I hope people can get hired for a part based on how well they act, not their size – which if anyone can break open that door, Peter Dinklage will be the one to do it. And while I find the Roloffs personally a bit annoying (not based on size, however), who can argue with them working a sweet deal with Discovery to provide the family with a decent living while at the same time presumably fighting a lot of ignorance at the same time?

I know one young woman who’s a dwarf – and a full foot shorter than snowbunny; she’s very short – who’s been making a good living as a standup comic for a number of years now. She usually starts off with a few icebreaker jokes about her size, but then moves on to other material. She’s also funny as hell, and I know she won’t object to my giving her any publicity – her name is Tanyalee, and I encourage you to check out one of her shows sometime if you can.

Oh, and one last thing nobody has asked that I thought I’d mention to help fight a bit more ignorance: Amongst dwarfs at least of acquaintance, people of more standard height aren’t referred to as people of “normal” height but of “average” height. Unless, obviously, they’re a basketball player or something. But that takes any suggestion of stigma away from a dwarf being “abnormally” short. I like that choice of terms, myself.

79

Last I heard the height for a little person was 4’ 9" or less. I’m 4’10" but I was never diagnosed with any form of dwarfism. I’ve never had any bone problems. I’m just genetically short due to my parents being short. I was pretty much a normal kid, maybe a little on the small side, until around 8th grade when my growth slowed down and everyone else kept growing. I wasn’t even the shortest in my class until then. I probably managed to grow another inch or two but pretty much stopped growing in my late teens.

I can certainly sympathize, I’ve been called a midget or munchkin many many times. I have trouble reaching the top shelves in grocery stores. I’ve been climbing shelves or using other things to knock stuff off the top shelf all my life. I only ask for help if the shelves don’t look sturdy and I can’t find something else to use as a tool to knock down an object or the object I want is breakable.* I jump up on counters to reach stuff in top cabinets and I’m getting a little old for that but I still do it when there aren’t any step stools handy. I’ve been asked many times how tall I am and how’s the weather down there and all that crap.

So I have nothing but respect and sympathy for actual little people but I’m sorry that I do have to admit to being a little giddy when I am around another adult shorter than me since it’s a very rare occasion. But I do know better than to comment on their height in any way … I just may grin like an idiot. Sorry about that, hopefully I just look friendly and not like a jerk.

*By the way, I can’t speak for everyone with this problem but if any of you taller people see someone struggling to reach something on a top shelf, ask them if you can help, don’t just reach over them and grab the object and hand it to them. That’s really annoying and a bit insulting.

80

Interesting thread, thanks! I saw Emannuel Lewis on one of those “child star” shows today, and it made me think of this thread. He is really, really small…looking at him next to other adults, he looks like he is maybe 4 feet tall. I think he has a kidney problem that stunted his growth, and that made me wonder, is someone like him considered a little person or a dwarf, or do those terms typically only get applied to people with congenital reasons for their short stature?