Ask the (former) Tanker.

In response to my contribution in this thread, I’ve been encouraged to start an “Ask the Tanker” thread.

I was a 19K M1 Abrams Armored Vehicle Crewman for just under 6 years (on a 4-year enlistment! :smack:) in the U.S. Army.

I joined in Oct. 1985, went to basic from Feb. 86 - Jun. 86. I was stationed in the 2nd Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment in Bamberg, Germany from Jul. 86 to Jun. 88, when I “PCS’d” (Permanent Change-of-Station; transferred) to 1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division at Ft. Hood, Texas.

I made it to the rank of Sergeant/E-5 by Jan. 1990, and reenlisted to be a “Navigation Avionics Specialist.” While awaiting an Avionics school slot (orders had actually come down, and I was “short”) when Saddam invaded Kuwait and we got preliminary orders to prepare for expedited movement to the Persian Gulf Theater. “Stop-Gap” went into place, and I was going to war.

We deployed on Oct. 11, 1990 and were assigned to 18th Airborne Corps to “backstop” the wind dummies in case Saddam got frisky and wanted to roll on into Saudi Arabia. As any good Airborne-type will tell you, “We don’t need no stinking tanks, or smelly tankers, to !@#$%& backstop us!” So we pretty much sat around doing much of nothing.

In December, the Army gave us brand-new M1A1 tanks for Xmas. That was nice. VII Corps out of Germany also showed up. Gen. Schwarzkopf found us a real job, and for the first time in about a decade, the 1st Cavalry Division actually had a Cavalry mission: screen VII Corp’s movement west of the Neutral Zone (yes, that’s what it was really called).

January and February had us up on the Neutral Zone, doing Reconnaissance-In-Force across Saddam’s “Line of Death.” With Engineers, we were doing “Berm Buster” missions. In short, Engineers blow a hole in Saddam’s berm, and we go through and shoot up anything and everything we can find of military value. Our penetrations into Iraq got deeper and deeper until Saddam detached some Republican Guard untis to deal with us.

Being Cavalry, we’d go up and “kick them in the nuts,” so to speak, and then run away. We’d then do it again from a different direction a few days later. Our job was, essentially, to be as annoying as all get out in order to fix Saddam’s attention to the south.

Come The Day, VII Corps attacked in force from the west, and rolled up Saddam’s forces pretty handily. My old unit, 2/2 ACR, was the “Tip-of-the-Spear” for VII Corps, and was instrumental in the Battle of 73 Easting.

We were eating VII Corps’ dust playing catch-up for 4 days. Come the morning of the 4th day, we had done a “Forward Passage of Lines” and were ready to take the lead for VII Corps. The order to move out and into the attack never came. Saddam sued for peace.

It was two months of “back staging” back into Saudi Arabi, through Khobar Towers, to get back to Ft. Hood.

One very minor war (from my perspective) later, and I was back at Ft. Hood, and trying to get new orders cut for my Avionics school. Unfortunately, I was in a “nutcracker” timewise. I no longer had enough time left on my enlistment for Aviation branch to want to send me to school, but I had too much time left yet on my enlistment for me to “extend,” a voluntary extension to my enlistment contract.

So I was stuck for the remainder of my second 4-year enlistment. I was ready to move on. Tanks were fun and all, but not what I considered a “carreer.”

Fortunately, the Army was overstrength, and in Oct. 91 offered qualifying personnel an “early out” voluntary separation option. I qualified, and departed the Army 25 Nov. 1991.

So: what do you want to know? I can speak with some authority on the strengths and weaknesses of the M1 Abrams family of vehicles. I can speak with some authority on Cavalry operations (although I was in tanks, I was never in Armor; I consider myself Cavalry first, last, and always), and the day-in-day-out life of the U.S. Army of the late 80’s/early 90’s.

Ask away!

Some pics from back then. It’s all DS/DS stuff. Nothing gross.

You mention being a crewman and E-5. Did you occupy all posts within an M1 tank: loader, gunner, driver and chief? If you occupied more than one post, how do they compare?
How loud/hot/unpleasant does it get inside a tank?
Was your tank ever hit by anything bigger than bullets? How does it feel?

Coming up through the ranks, I did everything (Loader, Driver, Gunner) but was never officially a Tank Commander.

Having said that, as a Corporal at Ft. Hood, I was tasked a couple of times to play Tank Commander when we played OPFOR (Opposing Forces) to units being evaluated in the field. Additionally, I was Gunner for a company commander and then later for the company XO (executive officer) during DS/Ds, and as such was the de facto tank commander for all ordinary daily stuff. The CO and XO were always TC when doing the Real Deal.

I had an excellent crew in DS/DS, so my job was pretty easy; no ass-kicking required (figuratively speaking).

Loud: “Eh? What’s that?” Long-term hearing loss is an issue for some tankers. Ear plugs along with crew helmet were recommended, but rarely followed. Helmet alone was typical.

Heat: “Is this a tank or a sauna?” Bewteen a gas turbine engine, powerful hydraulics (the turret alone weighs in ~21 tons), lots of thick, dense metal, and a great big ball of fire in the sky, it could get pretty toasty inside the tank. Water is your friend.

Unpleasant: that’s kinda subjective, but extreme heat/humidity were pretty bad. Cold, not so much; you can always get warm on a tank. Unless your heater’s broke. Then it’s an icebox.

We had some artillery falling pretty close around us at one piont. Heard the boom. It was kind of muffled. Nothing compared to the main gun firing, which isn’t so much as loud from inside the turret as just a sudden, massive, concussive/compressive force squeezing you for a second, and then it’s gone.

How much visibility is there from inside a tank (when buttoned-up)?

What do you think of the Merkava design that puts the engine in the front and the crew in the back?

ETA: “How do they compare?”

I liked being Driver the best; you were always doing something, and had the best seat inthe tank. Gunner was fun when you got to shoot, but the Army was miserly with main gun ammo. Loader is typically (but not always) the lowest ranked man on the crew, and first pick for shit detail.

Please share your thoughts on scorpions.

(j/k–I remember some of your stories from of old. :D)

More seriously, just how rough a ride is an M1A1 at speed? On the off-road terrain you saw, that is. Did you actually go for top speed often, or at all? An old acquaintance of mine had back trouble from his tanker days, partly as a result of being thrown around too much.

The faster you go, the smoother it got. Until you hit the Big Bump. And then you either went airborne, or you stopped. Unlike a car, there are no seat belts for sudden stops, and yes, then you can get banged up a bit.

Going airborne isn’t a problem for an Abrams; it’s the landing. Depending upon your initial trajectory, and the skill of your driver, landing could be either no worse than a minor bump or it can be a sudden, jarring crash. The key is initial launch angle and keeping ON the throttle and OFF the brakes. The key to initial launch angle is the skill of the Driver. As in, “Uh, no, that looks iffy, I’d better slow down a bit or go around that,” or “Uh? What?” :smack:

For normal travel (not tactical movement) the TC and Loader would typically be standing in their repsective hatches, and could get thrown around pretty good by a knuckleheaded Driver.

I seem to recall doing that quite deliberately once. Or twice. Hell, I put a tank into a powerslide taking a corner coming back from the rail head after a successful gunnery at Graf. The road was slightly damp from a kind of misty drizzle we’d had all day, and I just gunned it and threw the T-bar over and rode the bitch out.

Good thing it was on a paved surface, or I’d have thrown track. And then I’d have been breaking track. In the rain.

During tactical movement, the TC and Loader are seated with hatches closed (for the Loader) or Open-Protected for the TC. Still, no seat belats.

“Road feel” for an Abrams is like having a foot vibrator/massager on the entire bottom of both feet. Quite relaxing. Keeping Driver awake on long road marches can be a real trick. That’s a crew training simulator, but the angle/configuration is right.

Thank you for your service.

Do you think PTSD is over, under, mis, or appropriately diagnosed?
If you could tell “bootcamp you” one thing, what would you say?
If you could change the VA, what would you change?
If you could change the country’s view of Veterans, what would you change?
If you could wave a magic wand for communities welcoming home Veterans, for what would you wish?

Bonus: did I ask too many questions? :stuck_out_tongue:

I was an Armor officer. Don’t hold it against me.

So what exactly is the difference between Armor and Cavalry?

Armor is a branch of the army. Cavalry gets to wear goofy hats.

Cavalry is a type of unit designed for a specific type of mission. Generally to Guard, Screen or Cover the main body. It consists of a team of armor, infantry and scouts in various configurations. A normal armor unit is designed to close with the enemy, kill people and break things.

Your welcome. Than you, Tax Paying Citizen, for giving me a 70-ton Tonka Toy with a really Big Gun to play with for six years.

I’m not a Doctor, so I really couldn’t say.

Save more money. Don’t let that rat-fuck SOB steal all of your pictures. Keep up with the photography, and try to make some money off of it; some of those photos were pretty good (not the stuff I linked to).

VA: Get your shit together WRT medical care for wounded vets. And just because they’re not bleeding or missing body parts doesn’t mean there aren’t injuries in need of treatment.

The VA’s stance on Education Benefits is (or maybe was; it may have changed) way too restrictive. Loosen them up; we earned them, so what should they care if we only go to school part-time while we work to keep a roof over our heads or food on the table?

Vets are people just like anyone else; some are good, some, not so much. Don’t make any and all Vets out to be some kind of paragons of virtue just because.

A happy, healthy homecoming and a peaceful, prosperous life free of survivor’s guilt, free from traumatic memory, free from pain. Be whole, of mind and soul, if not of body.

Not at all. :slight_smile:

I spent the last two months of my Army time in Grafenwohr. It would’ve been nice to have a little drizzle more often…just to wet down that god damn, powdery dust that gets into everything. God, I hated that place.

Anyway, my question is: What’s the longest time you spent completely buttoned up? I saw a clip of one of the tankers that was at 73 Easting, and I think he said his crew were completely sealed in for three days (maybe more) due to the possibility of chemical attack.

Five guys in a small area for that long…whew!

A couple of technical/psuedo-technical questions I’d like to ask, if you can answer them.
#1
For some reason a section from a fairly old technothriller has stuck in my head for a long time.

The passage said that all M1’s were fitted with speed limiters, and that the first thing a new crew did with a new tank was to disable that speed limiter.

Total BS? or some truth to it?
For #2
It seems that the M1’s armour has become almost mythical amongst some armchair warriors in its ability to resist damage. I wonder if you can share any insight into how resistant the armour really is.

And related, could you share how comfortable you were going into Kuwait/Iraq given the M1’s capability? With the equipment the Iraq’s had (which was all reasonably older tech IIRC) were you concerned with their ability to damage/destroy your tank? Or did you feel reasonably safe (as much as you can in a battlezone I guess) given the situation you were in, and the capabilities of your equipment? Were you in any real brown trouser moments, where you thought you might not be going home? (Hope that’s not too personal - feel free to ignore if so)

The best picture I ever took was at Graf. Our tanks were basic OD Green, and the paint jobs were pretty faded to a slight green-grayish color. Coupled with German overcast, and Graf dust, the whole world pretty much looked black-and-white.

We were lined up at one of the ranges, and I took a pic of the tank next to us (had to be the platoon sergeant’s tank) and there was a nice regression of tanks (1st platoon and the command tanks). Between faded paint, black MGs, dust and overcast, it was black-and-white. But there was a single, bright red Coke can sitting on the TC’s cupola.

Ft. Hood. We were buttoned up (in August, in Texas) for 12 hours in MOPP 4 for training.

In DS/DS? About 2-3 hours during one of the SCUD attacks.

Four, and only three in the turret. But still, yeah. Personal hygiene is no joke.

:slight_smile:

A base and slanderous description. Spoken like one who hides behind prepared defenses, pre-plotted artillery, and has zoomies on stand-by.

Not like the ones who go gallivanting around behind enemy lines looking for trouble, calling artillery and air strikes in on the enemy, flipping them the bird, and pissing them off so bad they follow us back so that they can blunder sideways into Armor in prepared defensive positions, pre-plot artillery, and on-call air strikes.

The really big boys are the Armored Cavalry, who are the guys who go out and slaps the enemy in the face with a leather glove, with a brick inside.

:slight_smile:

Maybe this is obvious, but what do you do if you’re buttoned up for 12 hours and you have to take a dump? I figure you piss in empty water bottles, but have no idea about dropping a deuce.

Very much some truth. I was told by a Hull Mechanic that the M1 has two speed govenors: one mechanical and one electronic. The mechanical governor we could get at and adjust, but it would only really give us about a +5mph boost to our speed.

The electronic governor was inside one of the Electronic Control Units, and from context, I took it to be a “jumper” on a circuit board. But I couldn’t say for certain.

M1s have been shot by other M1s and survived (that means the crew lived, but they may not have been 100% after).

It is pretty much on the short list of “toughest tanks in the world.”

I personally was very comfortable and confident in the tank vs. tank survivability ofthe M1. I think I can speak with some confidence that the vast majority of tankers felt that way. The only concern I can really recall was the numeric disparity between forces; past a certain point, quantity is a quality all its own.

Getting surrounded by T-72s is not a good thing, as practical thickness of armor has to be oriented towards the primary axis of anticipated attacks: that means frontal.

There were a couple of Brown Trouser Moments.

One was the aforementioned Scorpion Incident. We’re not talking about the Scorpion Incident.

Another was shortly before the air war kicked off. We had been moving north slowly for a couple of days, and had dug in just south of the Tap Line Road in SA. We got word that some Syrian Coalition forces would pass in front of us during the night, and Higher was nervous that someone would see T-72s and panic and fire them up. :dubious: Wasn’t gonna happen.

But…my Loader left the safety off on his M240. And my Driver was climbing into the Loader’s hatch about 2300 that night to take his turn on radio watch when he slipped…and fell right on the butterfly trigger of the M240, letting off about a 30-40 round burst into the air…in the direction of the Tap Line Road.

Fortunately, no Syrians were present to witness Our Shame or have 7.62mm bullets fall on their heads.

And then there was Knight Strike One, on Feb. 20, 1991. 1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division was north of The Berm looking for Trouble, and we found it when A-51 took what was probably a 100mm anti-tank round from a dug-in gun position. We lost three guys (Mech. Infantry and crew), and I knew one of them as a casual acquaintence; he was Alpha Co.'s Training NCO the same time I was my Co.'s Training NCO, and we’d met and talked on a few occasions. He was a good guy. We could trade Infantry/Armor jokes w/o it being mean or nasty.

Being on the XO’s tank on one of the flanking tank companies, I was never in any real danger (aside from the aforementioned artillery falling right around us), but being on a command tank I got to listen to it all “in real time” as it happened. The “pucker factor” wasn’t so much for me, but the guys who were in the shit at the time.

When you sweat that much (heat injuries/dehydration were a real concern, and the training was part of an attempt to pre-acclimate us to the heat were expecting in SA) neither #1 or #2 are a real problem. Both require some degree of moisture in your body, and by that point, we were just about long-pig jerky. :wink:

Seriosuly, though, until late January of 91 we were in a semi-permanent camp with crude but serviceable facilities, including a two-stall shower.

After that, we were moving so much (and through the middle of nowhere, SA & Iraq) that we just did our business whenever we stopped (fuel, food, coordinating our movement with 1st Brigade, etc). An MRE box packed with sand makes a pretty decent “Camp Stool” all things considered, and really, we were in one big Cat Litter Box. Walk out about 100 yards, dig down a foot or so with the e-tool, do what you gotta do, cover it up, and leave it behind within a couple of hours at most as we moved on.

It’s better and worse than people make it out. You are NOT blind inside a buttoned up tank. The TC’s cupola has six vision blocks covering 360-degrees of view; the vision block on the Loader’s hatch wasn’t much good for anything except letting water in on the Loader’s head, but it was better than nothing.

The Driver has 3 vision blocks, front, front right, and front left. With the slope of the front glacis of the hull, you couldn’t see the ground about 20’ in front of the tank.

The Gunner has the main sight and Thermal Viewer. Standard magnification was x3, or x10 in full mag. By moving the turret, the Gunner could see 360-degree. Later models added an independent main gun sight for the TC as well, just in front of the Loader’s hatch.

My impressions of the Merkava, from what I’ve heard and read:

The Merkava is a strange duck; it’s a bit of a hybrid. It has the main gun and fire control of a MBT, favorably comparable to an M1. It has most of the armor protection of an MBT as well (if not as good as an M1, it’s more than sufficient to its doctrinal role), and further, it’s modular, easing maintenance and repairs from battle damage. Considering the IDF’s strategic situation, that’s no small consideration.

Horsepower and mobility are roughly comparable as well; I’d give the edge to the M1 in open-field, but to the Merkava in more limiting terrain.

Plus, it doubles as an Infantry Fighting Vehicle. This gives the IDF a tactical flexibility that takes two vehicles for the U.S. Army to match.

If I had to hold the Fulda Gap, or refight 73 Easting, I’d prefer an M1-series vehicle or NATO/allied equivalent.

If I were engaged in low-intensity conflict in a variety of terrain (urban, desert, hills/mountainous), give me something versatile like a Merkava.