Pretty much, and sometimes even more spectacular than that.
In this picture, the tank turret on the ground in the background came from the twisted piece of wreckage in the foreground. That turret weighs upwards of ~10 tons.
Now imagine the internal force of exploding fuel and ammo necessary to throw a 10+ ton chunk of metal that far.
And this was not one of my unit’s kills; it was during our 4-day run to play catch-up with VII Corps. So someone else, possibly even Coalition air units, did that.
How aggressively is the M1 used?
How does the military build crew confidence in the armor?
I’ve read that the Abrams crew is capable of withstanding biological munitions. Is their an air filtration system to facilitate that? And if so, why no air conditioning?
Hmmm. Not sure I have an answer to that more substantial than anally-extrapolated opinion.
I personally thought that we (the unit I was assigned to) were under-utilized in DS/DS. I have previously (prior threads) related an anecdote of a higher-ranking battalion-level NCO who, early in our deployment inthe desert, instructed us to dig personal foxholes next to our tanks. This was in case we were attacked, so we could jump off of our tanks and into our foxholes, to fight back.
I. Shit. You. Not.
It was part-and-parcel of being in a “Task Force” mixed-arms unit, with predominantly Infantry-brach battalion command & staff. I think they were afraid to use us as agressively as we could have been, for fear of…something. I won’t ascribe motives to my “higher,” as I wasn’t in their shoes.
The commanders of the units at 73 Easting were, by all accounts, plenty agressive.
A tank has heft. A kind of massive presence that you have to experience up-close-and-personal to truly appreciate. If you are ever close enough to one as it rolls by, you’ll know what I mean, becuase you’ll feel it. Go stand close (but not too close!) to a train track when a freight train goes rolling by at speed for a comparable experience.
The Abrams has often been described as the “Cadillac” of tanks for it’s handling characteristics, and that’s a 60+ ton vehicle maneuvering almost like a regular car. But it’s heft is still there, and when you ride it, you feel it.
That feeling may be somewhat illusory, but it’s there nonetheless. When you ride tank, you feel like a Lord of War. And for the most part, you are.
Some YouTube links that may be informative.
The original M1 Abrams had an air filtration system for defense against chemical agents (not biologicals or radiologicals) It connected to our gas masks and provided a positive pressure air flow through our gas masks. Each station had an air heater for cold weather use as well, so you weren’t having ice cold air forced through your gas mask and onto your face.
The M1A1 and later models had that as well as an additional system that took post-combustion air bled off of the turbine engine, ran it through a cooling system to bring it down to human-breathable temperature, and then blow it into the crew compartment at greater-than-atmospheric pressure (I forget its pressure rating).
That also has a control on it to cool it down even further. It wasn’t air conditioning by any stretch, but it was often better than nothing.
Why is the military miserly with the ammo? If I remember correctly, it’s about 4000$ a pop, which is about 1/1000th the marginal cost of the tank. About how many rounds does a gunner fire in a year?
Does the armor have a tendency to become damaged even when not hit by projectiles?
Does the armor branch have a tendency to attract particular psychological types?
Missfire!
Arm the gun, arm the gun!
Christ, these are kids.
It’s always kids; my Dad was a kid in 1942. 
How severe an injury do you get if you’re in the path of the recoil of that thing?
What did you do to guys who deliberately farted in the tank?
If you are in a turret filled with hot shell casings or aft caps you don’t want nylon shoelaces. Tanker boots were designed for a reason.
Really fucking bad. In training I was in the turret when the guy playing TC had his elbow in the way. Lucky for him it was at the very end of the recoil. Still messed up the elbow pretty good.
Everyone is eating MREs. Everyone is farting.
On behalf of my soon to be 10 year old son, who loves the History Channel’s “Greatest Tank Battles” show.
On behalf of me: tanks for your service!
-trupa, who ardently wishes those toy RC Abrams holding maneuvers in our family room would suffer a critical speaker malfunction. The designers scaled down the size, but apparently not the noise…
Sorry for the delay, I had stuff to do yesterday.
Why is the military miserly? Ask Congress. Every year, they want the military to do more, with less. To their credit, the branches of the Armed Forces somehow manage to pack a bit more capability into a bit smaller package.
When I was in ('86-'91), we’d do Gunnery about twice a year, and fire about 20-30main gun rounds per tank over the course of the entire Gunnery exercise. Plus additional .50 cal and 7.62mm machinegun ammo, but that’s small beans compared to 105mm and 120mm main gun rounds.
After the fall and breakup of the Soviet Union, doctrinal roles for tanks changed, and an emphasis for more light, rapidly deployable forces took the lead from heavier forces, and training precedence went to them.
I’m not knocking that decision, as it is a military truism that most militaries train and equip to fight the last war (the one they were just previously in), as evidenced by the Iraq War’s initial lack of training and equipment suitable for long-term anti-insurgency operations on hostile ground.
I think that the armor may be somewhat degraded from enough hits from heavy enough weaponry. For instance, I think you could fire .50 cal machineguns at the frontal armor of just about any tank until Kingdom Come and not do any appreciable damage. The same may not be true for 20mm - 40mm munitions, or anti-tank rockets. And I would think that hits from tank main gun rounds (even if they didn’t pentrate the armor) would have some lasting effect on the metal of the armor.
But I’m not a metallurgist, so I really couldn’t say. Maybe some other Doper with training or experince in metallurgy could chime in?
I don’t think that the armed forces attract any particular psychological type for initial entry into the service. I would hazard a guess that once somoeone decides to stay in and advance, then certain broad psychological types, or maybe perhaps just certain psychological traits, become the norm.
Take Special Operations types, for instance. You not only have to want to be Special Forces, you have to prove, over-and-over again, through rigorous and arduous selection and training “check-points,” that you’re physically and mentally suitable for them.
As Loach says, being in the recoil path of the main gun of any tank is not a place for Happy Fun-Time making. Do no be in that space. You will not enjoy it. Your not-enjoyment may quite possibly be terminally (and mercifully) brief.
Or they may hear your dying screams in the next grid square.
In basic, when we were first marched to the motor pool and introduced to the M1 Abrams, our Drill Sergeant said (as best I can recall from memory):
There are safety barriers, and “Do Not Enter” areas depending upon current operations, there are crew drills, and safety training, and safety awareness training, and for the most part, people do pay attention and make it through their service without much more than the occasional scrape or minor laceration (an “ouchie + band-aid” level of injury).
And then there are…others.
Like a certain Tank Commander from my time at Ft. Hood who lost his left arm from just above the elbow, from the exact same type of injury Loach describes. The TC in my story had his arm sticking out into the recoil path of the main gun just a litle bit further than the TC in Loach’s incident. Turned his elbow joint into gravel.
Or the kid who managed to keep his leg but now has a permanent limp from having his lower right foot and leg crushed between the turret and the hull as the turret traversed, because he neglected to put the Loader Foot Guard into place and stay on the “safe” side of that barrier-line.
Or the tanker’s “urban legend” of the automatic main gun loading system the Russians developed for one of their tanks that had a tendency to want to grab one of the crew members and stuff them into the breach of the cannon like an evil, demented robot; “In Soviet Russia, gun loads you!”
Yeah, I guess it is at times.
No. The unit I was in, the 1st Cavalry Division, was playing “catch up” to VII Corps. We went through the area that 73 Easting had taken place in, and saw the remains/after-effects. Some of the photos I linked to in that album were from that.
That’s really dependent upon terrain and visibility/sightlines. In the wide-open desert, 100 meters between tanks is practically “crowding.” In the forests and hills of Germany, that would be a lot closer. Doctrine called for widest possible practical separation between individual units that the terrain allowed, to keep as many units as possible out of any enemy artillery “footprint,” as artillery was the primary delivery method for chemical warfare agents.
As far as noisy toys go, take Dennis Leary’s advice, and “Don’t Buy The Toys That Make Noise!”
I’m a Tank PL in the last ACR left in the Army. (11th)
I’m going to my first Gunnery Friday, what should I expect?
Should I bring a spare PC?
Loach being a former officer, could probably clue you in a lot better on the “officer’s perspective,” than I could. Expect “pressure” from Higher, as eyes will be on you.
From a purely “gunnery” perspective, and my one-and-only tour at N.T.C., I can say to expect heat (but it’s a dry heat! 
) dust, sand in places you don’t want to share with us (we don’t want you to share with us), noise (wear your hearing protection), propellant fumes (God I loved the smell of the main gun firing!).
Have fun with it; it’s a good time in life to be young and have a whole tank platoon to play with.
If they still do the TC’s .50 cal enganement, have your gunner discretely lase to the target and take a quick peak at that range to dial in your .50 cal before engaging. Or do they let you use your CITV to do that? We didn’t have the CITV back when, and it was considered cheating to have your gunner lase to the TC’s .50 cal target; the TC was supposed to estimate the range by Mk. 1 Eyeball.
But everyone did it anyway, and everyone knew that everyone did it. :rolleyes:
Take a camera, and get lots of pics. We didn’t have digital cameras back when, and I’ve lost a lot of great pics to casual thievery over the years, including one SOB who made off not only with the pics, but the majority of the negatives as well.
Those are mementos that are gone from me forever. Don’t let it happen to you.
Oh, and last piece of advice: keep your hand off of the TC’s Override.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add:
Allons!
A question on more domesticated matters: Do US armoured vehicles have the facilities onboard to make a nice cup of tea? (Well, a brew anyway). I’ve been led to believe that British Army vehicles pretty much always do.
