No problem, sleep well. hugs 
Any parks nearby where you live, or the school? If so, how are they?
It sounds like you’re teaching soldiers, am I reading that right? Are they Americans who don’t speak English well, or Saudis?
This is terribly rude, and maybe it’s just that I missed something but anyhoo:
Sage Rat kicks Paul in Saudi in the ass
Go somewhere with women ya fool!
runs away :eek:
Is there such a thing as an impoverished Saudi (i.e. somebody born in Saudi Arabia, not one of the immigrant underclass)?
Is there much resentment of the royal family?
Do you know any openly gay people?
What is the closest that a non-Muslim can get to Mecca? Do you notice a swelling of people during the Haj?
In Saudi Arabia there is no public life aside from work, the mosque and the marketplace. Although the new parts of the city are planned with areas for parks, there is nothing much that approaches the Western idea of one. They are sand pits more or less. Sometimes kids will set up a couple of goal posts, or a cricket pitch.
The one exception here in Jeddah is the Golden Sands Beach. All the other beach access is blocked off by walled mansions. People come there to rent jet skis and those four-wheel ATV things. They then drive them on the road. At night. With no lights.
The Harrum is (I think) fifty kilometers from the center of Mekkah. The city has a bypass road non-Muslims. I never have much reason to go up that way.
There is a huge influx of pilgrims each year for the Hajj. The government requires these folks (who all fly in right over my house) to travel in groups. They do not see much of the countryside.
There are lots of poor Saudis. The typical car here is a Toyota Camery, or a Chevy Caprice. Most of these are over-old. There are beggars when I drive through McDonald’s, more on my way into the shopping mall. Most of these are Hajjis who have escaped their tour groups. Many are Sudanese or Ethiopians. Still, some seem to be Saudis.
Homosexual acts are punished by death. There are no openly gay Saudis. Plenty of expats however. When I have more time I will expand on this subject.
What else? I am off to the hospital after work today. I go to a private one. The government hospitals are dirty, overcrowded and pretty basic.
Otherwise, I have to get to the kitchen and and make some breakfast.
So what do you do for fun then? Anything?
I remember a recent post of yours talking about booze, and how it’s only sold to foreigners. Care to elaborate on that? Do you partake? What would happen if you got caught?
Any single ladies in your “compound”?
Do you know the story behind the atrociously ugly public “art” projects that I’ve heard quite a bit about? They were featured prominently in one of Michael Palin’s around-the-world shows, but I don’t know if they’re only in Jeddah or in other cities as well.
There is no real booze in Saudi Arabia (OK, outside the embassies). The products I have mentioned are homemade stuff. The Saudis get what they want from separate sources, I guess.
I have never heard of anyone getting into trouble for ‘consumer quantities’ of alcohol. I have heard of major raids against producers. While I have no proof, I have always supposed the police here have adopted a live and let live attitude towards this.
There are single ladies on the compound. Most of them are Ethiopian maids. (I had a thread a few months ago concerning my gut-wrenching relationship with one.) Too often these relationships seem to come too close to prostitution for my tastes. But still it is possible.
Some people also resort to fake marriage certificates and other scams to move in together. Oddly, it seems that the local rules against immorality seem to encourage people to do more of it.
I’m curious about your experiences with the Arabic language (the standard, or whichever dialect you’re most exposed to).
Did you take classes or use books before your arrival? After your arrival? Or did you learn just through immersion?
How much have you picked up now that you’ve been there for ten years? Are you able to, for example, understand two locals talking to each other colloquially? Could you join the conversation comfortably?
I taught ESL in Europe for many years, and at one point, had to choose China, Saudi or Switzerland. I took Switzerland and never looked back. But while I was in Switzerland, I met a lot of ESL teachers who had taught in Saudi. A few questions to verify their stories:
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A male and female, just friends, even foreigners, cannot go and have a picnic by the beach if they are not married.
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On the compounds, bathtub gin (homemade alcohol) was pretty common, and even though the guards knew about it, they turned a blind eye.
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One of the major reasons I rejected the offer was because I heard the Saudis confiscated your passport upon arrival and you were not allowed to leave until your “contract” was completed, unless there was a verified emergency at home. True? (This was in the early 80’s and the contract I was supposed to sign was for two years.)
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Although you earn a ton of money, things there are so expensive that you really have to live on the compounds otherwise it is not such a deal.
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Regarding the Gay question…I know the laws in Arab countries, but I heard that that was the one problem I, as a Gay man, would never have - as long as I was discreet. Especially within the compounds.
Not a question, but a statement: While in Switzerland, we had lots of Saudi students (14-18 years old) and without exception, they were all great kids, very worldly and open to questions. Granted, they had the moneyofgod - one 18 year old bought a Lamburghini (sp?) to send home and another had his dad’s private jet take his friends on a trip through Europe after summer school. There were also a lot of kids from Kuwait at that school and well…this is one American who will never stereotype all Arabs as wild-eyed fanatics. Oh…and Paul, I see you were recently pitted for statements you have made. Forgetaboutit. You have always been someone I like to see post. And regarding your “reputation”…well, you sound like a healthy slut to me.
Hello Paul,
I have always read your posts with interest and enjoy them. I have spent some time in the Middle East and my current job involves teaching Saudi Arabian military personnel, whom I find eager to learn and eager to share their culture, but there are some subjects I’m reluctant to ask about, so I’m glad you opened this thread.
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I read a book on Saudi customs/culture and was struck by the sentence (paraphrasing): “Saudis believe marriage should foster romance instead of resulting from it.” I think it is a unique but understandable attitude towards arranged marriages. Any thoughts?
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I have two friends who would be dead now if their attackers had literally turned left instead of right when they stormed their compounds, but that’s neither here nor there - do you constantly look over your shoulder or do you accept / consider the terrorist threat at all?
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Finally, since you broached the topic of homosexuality, could you shed some light on same-sex friendships in the kingdom? I have seen many middle eastern men holding hands in public, but cant get a straight answer (pardon) as to how to frame this in a western light. Is it a bete noire of Saudi culture or is my puritanism showing?
I read about a transsexual Saudi, MTF, whose father died. So after she had gone to all the trouble to officially, legally change her gender identity, she went to court to claim male gender again, to inherit her dad’s wealth, because male inheritance in Islamic law is double the amount a female gets.
Two thoughts: 1. It just goes to show how powerful a force gender identity is, that in the world’s ultimate bastion of male privilege one would chuck that privilege and be a woman in Saudi Arabia, of all places! 2. Here’s a transwoman who lacks the courage of her convictions. She tried to have her cake and eat it too. Not being true to herself.
Paul, what about the black people there? The race issue? How come no one ever talks about it? When I was there it seemed like nearly half the people were black.
Forget the booze, I want to know about marawonna (sp.?)
I am back from my blood test. I also stopped at McDonald’s on the way home. You have to be amazed by the economics of bringing in a crew of Filipinos to run a hamburger place. Remarkable.
The art serves a purpose. Most of the city is without landmarks. Huge public sculptures give us something to drive around. The “Camel Roundabout,” the “Filipino Navy,” and the “Bicycle.”
No unmarried people cannot go out in public. There is a danger the Religious Police or some local busybodies would come and harass you. I have certainly done it, but you take a risk.
Handholding is not a sign of being gay. This is true here and in most of the Necafe Countries east of Athens and west of Souel. In a more shocking way, the color pink has no special meaning here. Sometime you will see a pink car or house. It is just a nice color.
The Gays I have known here seem to be having a great time, but rarely with a Saudi (not at all as far as I know). On the other hand, sexual frustration being what it is, homosexual activity does take place amongst Saudis. (I have a buddy who is a doctor, you do not want the details.)
As Steve, my very gay friend said, “They are not really gay, they just sort of get sucked into it.” (ugh!)
What else?
All things being equal, do you think you would be as willing to stay in Saudi Arabia if you were a woman?
Hard to say. I am here for whatever personal, financial or psychological reasons. Were I a woman, who is to say? Some women like it here. It takes all kinds to make a world.
Oh, about transsexuals, a year or so ago, the Arab News (my hometown paper) carried the story of five or so sisters who were all going the F to M route. I was just sort of amazed it is even allowed.
So Saudi Arabia is sort of like US prison? (ignoring the whole rape=power issue, yes)
[[Captain Kramer]] So, Jake, you ever been in a Saudi prison?[[/Captain Kramer]]
Are you talking about unmarried couples?
When you say you go through three security checkpoints, do you mean checkpoints like roadblocks set up to check the papers of people generally passing by, or checkpoints that are set up to enter or leave a particular facility? If they are roadblocks, what are they usually checking for?
More generally, what restrictions are there on travelling within the Kingdom, or entering or leaving?