Paul forgive my correction but I believe it was the character of Captain Oveur (played by Peter Graves) who asked about being in a Turkish prison. Rex Kramer was Robert Stack’s character.
Thank you for your attention.
I have two checkpoints to enter my compound in the evening, three to enter the air base in the morning. The police do make checkpoints on the roads from time to time. Usually the seem to stop all the (certain kind of car)s, probably because of criminal activity.
After all the Hajis are supposed to have gone home, they will set up checkpoints all over town stopping cars and checking residency permits. Many people from poor countries overstay in the Kingdom. Oddly these checkpoints always just wave me past, looking for darker-skinned people than me.
Which brings us to the question about race I previously ignored. (Sorry about that.) Hard to figure. Islam teaches the equality of the races. This was the subject of Mohammed’s last sermon.
On the other hand, people are people. My students (heck my teachers) use the n-word fairly freely, but swear they mean no offense. I think I have broken them of this by now.
There is little or no racial discrimination, although there is family discrimination all to heck. On the other hand, few families are racially ‘pure,’ (black) slaves usually we accepted into Arab families over time, so you have white and black Al-Caponies. Do the two branches of the family intermarry? I have no idea.
Are the roads still pretty much a free-for-all? I seem to remember the roads being mere suggestions, once you were out of town.
My strongest memories are going to the souk to shop and swimming with goggles in the Red Sea. Can one still go wandering about the souk? At the time, there were people who had money held up by clothespins on strings. I don’t know if they were lending or exchanging, but it was weird to see. I also remember eating falafel at a sort of a diner and buying bolts of cloth.
Have you been swimming in the Red Sea? I am sure it is not as unspoiled as it was then. It was like swimming in an aquarium. Unbelievable.
You mentioned the dirty local hospital. We went once, when one of my sisters was sick. I think that is what prompted up to leave early. My mom was not impressed.
Paul I don’t think you’ve answered the question “what do you do for fun” yet. I have seen it asked a coupla times and I am EAGERLY awaiting your reply!
(Understanding that this is a bit like asking a guy in Minnesota what the food is like in North Carolina)
Can you comment on our continued military presence in Iraq? There’s OBVIOUSLY something going on there that isn’t actively portryed in American news. For one thing, there’s gotta be at lease two very idealistic sides, if only because you’d think you’d either run out of suicide bombers or people lining up to be policemen.
(That sounds a little distant, but is seems like we’re always hearing of a suicide bomber setting off a bomb and killing 4, 8, 12, etc. police trainees)
So, are we in the way? Are we wanted there? Is it having any kind of positive (or negative) affect?
You said that you cannot stand to live in the United States, but I wonder how is it that you choose to live in a country where women are treated more like property than human beings?
Does the fact that the Saudis treat women like they’re not even human bother you at all, or do you see no problem whatsoever with denying human rights to half the population?
Fascinating thread (and I assume this does not mean tiny bi-colored Al Capones?).
What, perhaps, would you propose he do? (other than deflate a pretty interesting topic.)
I think the question is perfectly valid considering the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia and the fact that he chose to live there knowing that half the population has virtually no rights.
What, we should just ignore that part of their culture?
I’ll leave Paul to give his explanation, but it obviously isn’t a factor in his choices. Is it wrong, yeah, I think so. Are you going to single handedly change an entire culture over night? (Especially one as staunch in their beliefs as this) nope. Would this mean you stay or leave? That’s up to YOU to decide.
However, would you go tromping into Tibet, then immediately demand they start wearing jeans? Paint things pink? Convert to Caholicism? I am, by no means equating these things, but they are all representative of cultural differences.
Perhaps he’s making subtle change by example, no?
I didn’t ask him to change their country. I asked why he obviously prefers to live in a society that denies human rights to half the citizens on the basis of gender than in a society where that is illegal, namely his native country.
You don’t think that’s valid?
(Gee, Eve called this an interesting thread. I am blushing.)
Well, I live here for what are probably a number of complex and interrelated financial, psychological, and personal reason.
While it is true women here have few rights, the same can also be said of the men. You see, in Islam ‘rights’ are something Society has, not really something the individual has. So Society has the right to be peaceful, so people do not have the right to cause trouble.
Do I agree with it? No. But then there are lots of thing of North American/European culture I do not agree with. (Why do you live in a culture that put old people in special homes to die?) It takes all kinds to make a world.
(You do realize, I hope that the women, or the men, here live more of less the way they want to? I mean it is not like they all want to start driving or wearing halter tops.)
Further, I hope (and I believe) the presence of expats are changing things for the better.
What else? OK, what do I do for fun. Well first off my job, I love teaching English. Great job. I have a parrot who keeps me amused. I write on the internet and a ton of fiction that will never see the light of day. I have tons of e-mail to answer. I enjoy my magazines. I like having time away from the busy culture of the West. (When was the last time you could take the time to read a book from cover to cover?) I am a cook and I am learning to bake.
Right now, I have to make breakfast.
You keep mentioning that you have “complex and interrelated financial, psychological, and personal reasons” why you chose to be an expat generally and live in Saudi specifically. I’m guessing you probably don’t want to share all of them, but can you share some of the specific reasons?
(This hardly seems to be of general interest, but anyway …)
Well, when I retired from the Army, I went through a difficult time of un- and under-employment. Civilians are nuts, in case you have not realized that. Jobs with the Saudi military have a certain paramilitary flavor that makes me feel at home.
I also suffered (and am suffering from) a nasty martial breakup. (“I came to the desert, to forget.”)
The money is good, although not as much as you might think. The tax advantages are huge. (How do people in the US make both ends meet? It is beyond me. I am tracking for an early second retirement if I want it.)
As to the traffic, I hardly even notice it. Of course I grew used to freeform traffic patterns in Panama. Here the density is much lower, so for me it is no problem. Still the roads themselves are remarkably dangerous. Concrete blocks next to the roadside. Huge barriers protecting lamp posts. (You will die, but the lamp post will be OK.) I try not to drive if I can help it.
If you have time, I’d still be very interested to hear about your experiences with the Arabic language. How much have you managed to pick up over ten years?
How difficult is it to get western ingredients? How difficult is it to get “ethnic” ingredients, eg: Asian or Mexican etc. How expensive is it compared to the US to buy ingredients? Are there any local ingredients or is everything shipped in?
This doesn’t even come close to answering my question. In Saudi Arabia, women can’t drive, can’t hold a job, can’t leave their homes unescorted by a male family member, get a divorce, be free of domestic violence, or leave the country. They can’t even decide they don’t want to marry the person who was arranged for them.
How do you feel about that? Do you feel that it would ‘cause trouble’ if women had those rights?
Out of all the places you could have chosen to live, why pick a country where women are the property of men?
Last week.
Do you think that living in Saudi Arabia has increased the negativity with which you seem to view ‘the West’?
How would you describe your personal cultural and religious position? How well do these attributes fit in with Saudi culture, both in theory and in practice?
Gosh I hope I am not too negative toward the West. After all, I can be pretty darn negative toward Saudi Arabia (and generally am).
Women are not property in Saudi Arabia nor in Islam. Women can and do have jobs (one is an airline pilot for Pete’s sake). Women are protected by (a weak and poorly-enforced) law against domestic violence.
Women do get to say ‘no’ to arranged marriages. I know of cases of this happening.
In fact most of the things you raised are not Saudi things, they are Islamic things. Saudis are in the awkward position of needing to be ‘more Catholic than the Pope’ as far as religion goes as they are the protectors of the Two Holy Sites.
If it is in the Q’ran the Saudis are pretty well stuck with it.
Further, you need to look at the rights of women here compared to the rights of men. Both are very restricted compared to what we in the West are used to. A dress code (for example) does not only apply to women, but also to men. Also men have travel restrictions. (My students for example cannot leave the country.)
In any case, it is their country. T.E. Lawrence said 'It is better that they do it imperfectly than we do it perfectly, for in the long run it is their country and their war, and our time here is very short. ’
Will things here change? I hope so, but the Saudis will decide how quickly to change.
I just got back from the Danube grocery. They have a nice selection of American stuff. No problem getting stuff like home.
Well, now you know why we’re nuts!