Hi Andy! I can’t think of any questions that haven’t already been asked, but I wanted to thank you for starting this very interesting and educational thread. This is why I became a Doper.
Cheers!
Seeker
Yeah, great thread. Thanks. I love the sunset story.
Could you expand on this a little? To what extent is it a “known unknown” for you? Is there an element of genuine mystery or - inconvenience aside - is it just details?
For everyone who thanked me for this thread…you’re welcome. Thanks for participating. Also thank Queen Tonya for making the suggestion to me in the other GQ thread. She made me feel so interesting…I never feel very interesting around here with all the really interesting characters roaming about.
hawthorne, I’d have to say there is some mystery. I’ve seen photographs that were altered to show a ‘normal’ person what the photo looks like to a color-blind person. My deficiency is so widespread, this kind of thing is impossible. I have no idea what everyone else sees. It’s not just a theory of mine, I’ve been told by doctors & sceintists that they have no way to know just what I’m seeing.
If I could somehow correct my perception, just how far off am I? Is my sky blue? Is it purple or green? If I had to guess, I don’t think it’s that far off…But it could be. I’ll probably never know. That’s a known unknown for me. I don’t think about it too much though, because what’s the point? It’s fun explaining it to someone and watching their reaction when the realization sets in.
“You mean if I somehow got into your head & saw the world through your eyes, grass might be yellow? Whoa! That’s messed up!”
I get that all the time.
Now, if I can get it fixed, and start making paintings of the way I used to see things…that might be more interesting. As it is, I’ve been trained to react to my perception the way everyone else does. The sky doesn’t look strange to me, it’s the way it’s supposed to look. But if I could actually find out and show people what I see? That’s be cool. So I wonder about that…but it doesn’t keep me up at night or anything.
Does that answer your question at all?
Is the problem w/ the eyes? or w/ the Brain? Cuz, if it’s the brain, then possessing someone’s (Andy’s) body would only result in: “His eyes are normal”.
Where as if it’s the brain, doing the Vulcan Mind-Meld would result in: “This guy is either insane or brain damaged”
Speaking as someone who knows you IRL and has actually done this, let me just say “dance monkey!”
And as long as I have you here I might as well ask a question. Hmmm… so, regarding our color-coded homeland security warning system, do you ever have trouble knowing if you are safe from a terrorist attack?
As far as the dot tests go, I can “see” the numbers that are supposed to be there, it’s just that the “wrong” number seems more distinct. In other words, colors contrast differently. I can see the, say, blue dots that would turn the “7” into a “9”, but they don’t have the same contrast that the dots making up the “7” have. It just looks more like a 7 than a 9, although I can see how someone with slightly different color perception might call it a 9.
The only time I’ve noticed disagreements with other people about color perception are about edge colors. Is the shirt mostly green, with a touch of brown, or brown with a touch of green?
The hubby sees the numbers, but I’m betting he doesn’t see them as clearly as I do. And I have to tell you, those numbers are SO obvious to me that I have trouble perceiving what someone wouldn’t be able to see. But that brings up another question, about the red filter thing I mentioned for quilting. Did you ever see the home-game version of $20,000 Pyramid? The game cards have the answers on them, but they’re printed in pale blue ink and covered with red dots - to view the answers, you have to put a clear red filter over. Could YOU see the answers without the red filter?
(Just as a slight aside: I had a friend in college who was colorblind, and yes, the second I found out he was I said, “What color is this?” He replied, correctly, “red.” When I asked how he knew that, he said that 99 times out of a hundred, the person asking would choose something red to “stump” him with, so that was his automatic answer!)
jester21, I understand it as a problem with the actual eyes, so if my eyes were transplanted , I would guess that the color-deficiency would follow. From the Vulcan mind-melds I’ve already experienced, the Vulcan in question was able to perceive colors as he/she normally would. I’m not sure why that is. Maybe someone would like to start an “Ask a Vulcan” thread… :rolleyes:
Lemur866, Did you try the tests I linked? There really isn’t wrong numbers in the first 6, just numbers you are supposed to see. For the record, I can see the “25” in the first circle, and can vaguely make out the “56” in the second one down on the right. That’s it. The other circles are just multi-colored dots. When I was in high school, I took some advanced tests of this nature, where normal vision would see a word and colorblind people were supposed to see another word. I couldn’t see any words. The class made fun of me. They are on my list too.
LifeOnWry, I remember that game! I haven’t played it in years. Umm…No, I couldn’t see the answers…I did carry a record of 156-0 and…umm…I didn’t play with you, did I?
Yes I was able to read the answers without the de-coder. Like you were explaining with the circle-tests, I couldn’t comprehend that others couldn’t see them.
Moe…
(Takes a minute to dance for Moe’s amusement…)
That’s why I voted for Kerry…the Terror alert might work just fine for all of you, but the system doesn’t protect me!!! I’m on my own when it comes to alert levels so as I result, I’m always on guard against a possible terrorist threat. Like Jack Bauer.
Moe…I’m putting you on my list.
He stated in the OP that the problem is with certain cones in his retina. A lot of people would assume that means it’s in the eyes, but technically, the retina is often considered to be part of the brain.
So am I wrong in thinking that the color blindness would be transplanted along with the eyes?
My dad’s severely colorblind, too. Not too sure what kind it is exactly, but he hated both the movie Pleasantville and What Dreams May Come , because he didn’t get why everyone else kept oohing and aahing at the cinematography.
Your sunset story reminded me of a time when I was a kid and my dad was running around outside screaming “It’s so beautiful! It’s orange! It’s orange!” The sky was slightlty pinkish, but apparently he was seeing a gorgeous bright orange sky. I was kind of envious of his colorblindness for the first time that day…
I forgot to answer this…The answer is no. I have 20/20 vision.
Have you ever seen a rainbow? If so, what did it look like?
on a related note, have you ever found yourself accidentily wandering into gay bars?
How about Northern lights? Hallucinogenicly induced tracers? Bonked your head and seen stars? Poltergeists in the static?
Do you feel like life is “duller” for you?
I mean that seriously. Like I imagine being color-blind like not being to taste differences in my food, or hear differences in music.
As a person who supposedly can eat and hear, do you think that’s a valid comparison?
Do you think you’re missing out on some of the vibrancy that some of us pick up on, a lesser appreciation of what an artist or movie-maker is doing?
There’s actually some interesting ideas in there…
…
I also noticed that my last post was poorly phrased, but everyone seemed to understand what i was trying to ask: Seeing THROUGH Andy’s eyes vs. seeing what ANDY sees (eye transplant vs. Vulcan Mind-meld)
so, if it’s the eyes, then BOTH should result in the observer seeing the same thing both ways, were as if it’s the brain, then only the Vulcan Mind-Meld would result in the skewed results.
But, Andy sez that the Vulcan Mind-Meld resulted in “normal” results… implying that his brain has compensated for the abnormalities… which duzn’t make a lot of sence… either that… or the Vulcan’s mind, automaticly compensated and inserted colors that made sence to him (lest his head explode). :eek:
Someone more knowledgeable may correct me, but I believe the retina is part of the rear wall of the eyeball. From there signals are sent via the optic nerve to the brain. So I believe if the problem is in the retina then the colorblindness would be transported along with the eyeballs.
Most commonly colorblindness is a problem with the opponent processing system which is not in the eyeball. The rods and cones send the signals to the brain through one of three channels, one for red/green, one for blue/yellow, and one for lightness/darkness contrast (which is of course why red and green or blue and yellow are typically lost together).
This is all from a class I took over 8 years ago so I may be completely screwing up everything.
::Moe begins covering himself from head-to-toe with little red circles, snickering triumphantly, completely ignoring the fact that this makes no sense considering it’s still winter for another month and a half::
You know, given the mention of the sweater knit with 16 shades that regularly-sighted (let’s pretend that’s a word, m’kay) folks mostly couldn’t discern, I’m now thinking that maybe we’re the one’s who’re missing out sorta. Like, sure, I’ve got ROYGBIV and I can see the colored circles, but Andy can possibly see 25 variations of grey and I can’t?
It’s like finding out that some folks see all movies in 3D without the special glasses or something. Hey…! Does 3D work for ‘most’ colorblind people, does it work for you, and does it make a difference if we’re talking older blue/red types or newer grey/grey types?
wampster, I’ve had people tell me that they wish they could see things the way I do, but I don’t think anyone went as far as envious. For every amazing cool thing I can see that others can’t, there’s probably a bunch of times it works in the other direction.
NurseCarmen, I’ll answer your questions one by one…
- Rainbow. Yes. I see them in the yard when a sprinkler is on too. They look like they’re supposed to, I think.
- Gay bar. What do you mean accidentally?
- Northern Lights. Yep. Although it wasn’t that vibrant to me. I don’t know if it was supposed to be (I was alone so I had no other eyes to compare it with)
- Hallucinogenicly induced tracers. Yes, the one time I tried acid. Colors seemed to ‘stretch’ from the things they were originating in. I suspect this has nothing to do with color-blindness.
- Head Bonk. Never saw stars. I tend to see little canaries.
- Poltergeists. Not yet. But I’m still looking. (walks over to piano and starts tapping hi-note keys…) They hate that.
Trunk, Sometimes I do, then there are times like my sunset story where I think I’m in a more vibrant world. I don’t think food or music can be a good comparison. Have you ever eaten Venetian cookies? I go absolutely bonkers for them, but I’ve seen people who taste them and don’t care for them that much. I don’t think that means I’m living a more vibrant life of flavor than anyone else, I like them more than someone else. If someone thought hot sauce tasted sweet, for instance…would they like it any less? I don’t lack the ability to see colors, I just see different ones than others do.
Jester21, Yeah…I think I know what you were getting at. When I say “If you could see through my eyes” there’s no science to back up actually doing it. According to Ferret Herder, the retinas are considered part of the brain. I was guessing that if there was an eye transplant, the retinas would go along for the ride. I might be wrong (I’m used to it) on that. It brings up the interesting theory of a cure by actually receiving a new set of eyes. I don’t know how possible that kind of thing is/will ever be, but if Ferret Herder is right, than even new eyes wouldn’t matter.
As for the Vulcans and not letting my head explode, they’re pretty cool that way. 
Could it be that…Men, Women See Colors Differently
All right Moe…waitaminute…Where’d he go? Moe?…Moe??? I know you were here a minute ago…
Queen Tonya, I like to think that way sometimes. Have you ever seen a nature show where there’s an animal or insect that’s well camouflaged? They’re not to me. Why? I said in the OP that I’m so color blind I don’t understand it. If the insect is the same color as the branch he’s sitting on, why does it look different to me? I guess that there is a slight difference in color that ‘normal-sighted’ folks can’t pick up on that stands out to me. I don’t know if it’s as cool as 16 shades of grey, but there might be something to me seeing things that you ‘normals’ miss out on, but the reverse is true in a bunch of instances as well.
RitzyRae, thanks for the neat link. I thought that had more to do with men being from Mars and all that.
16 shades of grey? Pshaw! How cool is innumerable shades of blue?
(squinting at something in the corner) Moe…is that you?