[QUOTE=Burrido]
What would happen if I did? Would it be different if I was a super obvious american tourist, you know, camera around neck, khaki shorts, tennis shoes, and I’m wandering around looking at stuff. And for indian, I understand the government is trying to help “untouchables” become more accepted but what’s the average person really feel/think about them?
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Are you a girl or a boy?
They are much more forgiving of white people, especially rich white men with money. White women, they might just say “look at the silly white girl.” Indian men wearing stuff like this, they’d say, “look how american he has gotten.”
Indian women dressed like this? Then men follow you down the street and women shield their daughter’s eyes from you. Certainly not universal but it does happen.
Wear long pants and cool clothes. I wouldn’t wear shorts to India, either, but then I don’t wear shorts to, say, Canada. I hate the idea of wearing overly-casual crap everywhere you go!
Gifts are expected. Anything cool, gadgety or distinctly American is appreciated.
Girls vs. boys. Well, the girls are generally not considered your own. Girls are only your own until marriage, when they go to their own families. Though I’ve seen it the way you mention I’ve seen it the other way, too, that the girl is spoiled and loved and cosseted because the mother knows when she goes to her in-laws she will have to work for the rest of her life.
Even here in the States Indian children are pushed much, much harder. C’s were never acceptable and B’s showed you could get A’s but weren’t trying hard enough. My parents never really believed I was really weak in math, they thought I just didn’t want to do the work!
Further questions from me, and thank you a million times for answering:
What’s the average school day like?
Is capital punishment still very common in schools?
Do only English standard schools teach English, or do the regular ones do so also?
I forget but I think your concept of “public” vs “private” schools is opposite of us. Please remind me what these terms mean to me?
Does school concentrate on rote memorization?
ascenray, I forget, are you atheist?
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What’s the average school day like?
It is 6 to 7 hrs mostly. In rural places it will be 10Am to 12 noon, 1 noon to 5 pm .
In urban areas you have 7 Am to 12.30 noon , or 1PM to 6.30 pm shifts..
2. Is capital punishment still very common in schools?
It is being abolished ( I think a law is being passed by government ). Last week also it was on TV, that a kid had to get ear surgically fixed , since teacher caned him .
3. Do only English standard schools teach English, or do the regular ones do so also?
In present day India , Englsih education starts fom age 3 or 4 when kid is sent to " nursery school". You have schools where medium of instruction is english, and schools where your monther tongue is the medium. Even in latter case, english as a language has to be taught from age 10.
But each region will have it’s on typical english accent .
I forget but I think your concept of “public” vs “private” schools is opposite of us. Please remind me what these terms mean to me?
Public schools are funded by government , and the quality of education is sub standard , compared to private schools ( privately owned and funded ). Private Schools run by Christian missionaries were the best for english eduction till couple of decades ago. Lot of entreprenuers are establishing private schools now. Yesterday in TV they showed a school, where kids are taught to speak with an AMERICAN ACCENT from grade 3 to 7 !!
5. Does school concentrate on rote memorization?
Except for the new age private schools , where you have newer methods of teaching, it is rote memorisation ( unfortunately). Those new age private schools are out of reach ( high fees )for most of the parents.
Somewhere around fifteen years ago, I really became aware of India, Indian food, etc*, and suddenly a few things passed down from my English grandparents made sense: rice pudding, words like “bungalow” and “doolally”, etc. I have also started to like Indian food, though I know very little about it. And I love the deep shimmering colours I see in Indian fabrics.
The English left India in 1947, or so I learned. Did any of them stay?
I have always found it amazing that the English mananged to stay as long as they did in India; the cultures must have almost been at war. A people known as “beefeaters” in a country where the living cow is sacred and given her freedom?
Do Indian people tend to associate closely within their group, as for friendship, marriage, etc? Does the caste system still rule socially?
Would a Canadian guy be of any interest to Indian women?
[sub]*And especially Sheila Chandra, the Anglo-Indian singer. I saw her live in Toronto at the Power Plant and it was one of the most amazing concerts I have ever been to.[/sub]
[/QUOTE]
The English left India in 1947, or so I learned. Did any of them stay? Very few
I have always found it amazing that the English mananged to stay as long as they did in India; the cultures must have almost been at war. A people known as “beefeaters” in a country where the living cow is sacred and given her freedom?
Indian’s unfortunately did not have any unity .. Hinduism was riddled with casteism, where the lower class weren’t allowed to mingle with upper privilaged class. The British kept the upper class pampered. That is also the reason why muslims were able to invade north india and rule for centuries.
Do Indian people tend to associate closely within their group, as for friendship, marriage, etc? Does the caste system still rule socially?
Yes ! Caste syatem rules socially , with very few exceptions in urban areas.
Would a Canadian guy be of any interest to Indian women?
Sure , come to any indian metro city and work for 6 months. You can have a GF. If you are serious enough in 18 months an Indian wife also. best of luck
[QUOTE=Struan]
What’s the feeling about the British 60 years after independence?
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[COLOR=DimGray]Negative : Britain looted india, it’s natural resources, brutally oppressed its people.[/COLOR]
Positive: There is a INDIA identity now ( earlier it was many small kingdoms, wih no concept of a unified kingdom).They have to be given credit for concept of democracy . India has not broken up after 60 years despite it’s inherent problems.We have an independant judiciary.
They laid the infrstructure for roads,railways etc.. First train service operated in India in 1851. some bridges built by british were functional for more than 100 years !
If it was not for the english education they started , India would not be the CALL CENTRE CAPITAL of the world.
Yes ! Caste syatem rules socially , with very few exceptions in urban areas.
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How do people know what caste you are? I understand that if you live in the same town, you will probably know just from knowing family and such … but let’s say a person moved from one area to another, more distant area. Can you make an accurate guess about caste based on appearance? Do people try to “pass” as another caste if they think they can get away with it?
[QUOTE=delphica]
How do people know what caste you are? I understand that if you live in the same town, you will probably know just from knowing family and such … but let’s say a person moved from one area to another, more distant area. Can you make an accurate guess about caste based on appearance? Do people try to “pass” as another caste if they think they can get away with it?
[/QUOTE]
Or does it go by work? Are all ditchdiggers members of a manual labour caste, for example?
If caste is related to job, what happens when new jobs come to town? What castes do they end up in. and who decides?
[QUOTE=delphica]
How do people know what caste you are? I understand that if you live in the same town, you will probably know just from knowing family and such … but let’s say a person moved from one area to another, more distant area. Can you make an accurate guess about caste based on appearance? Do people try to “pass” as another caste if they think they can get away with it?
[/QUOTE]
Most of It is in your surname / family name . In the same region, you may not be able to pass of as another cast memeber. If you move to a far away town, you can change your name. But if you need to produce any ID then cat may be out of the bag.Your accent can also be a giveaway
[QUOTE=Sunspace]
Or does it go by work? Are all ditchdiggers members of a manual labour caste, for example?
If caste is related to job, what happens when new jobs come to town? What castes do they end up in. and who decides?
[/QUOTE]
In rural India , cast is related to your profession. If an educated lower cast ends up in a town, he can land a good job proportional to his skills. India has a huge labour shortage now in manufacturing & service sectors ( expected to get worse ) , and hence cast divide is no longer applicable. Even the menial jobs like manual labourers are much in shortage now and are well paid.
Government has reserved jobs in public sector for lower casts .Once your name and cast is written in your school leaving certificate, it will be used for as proof of your eligibility.
[QUOTE=Struan]
What’s the feeling about the British 60 years after independence?
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I think it’s very complex. For the most part, I don’t think people bear any resentment towards the British. Indians still have a preference for British language and literature, for example.
[QUOTE=indian]
The English left India in 1947, or so I learned. Did any of them stay?
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Some did. In fact, there are some seats in the Parliament reserved for such “Anglo-Indians.” Anglo-Indians were key figures in the railroad system. I think for the most part, the “pure” English left in India have merged with the “mixed race” Anglo-Indians.
India is very diverse and has been for a long time. People have lived side-by-side with widely divergent practices and beliefs. To a large extent, any new group entering India simply became its own caste. It pretty much happened with Anglo-Indians, Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. Individuals joined society as a member of a group and the group was given a place in the social structure.
For example, almost all tailors in the cities are Muslims. Well, Hindus use tailors quite frequently. That means that almost all Hindus have some interaction with Muslims, at least when it comes to clothing.
By and large, people still marry within their castes. The higher up you go in wealth, education, and urban culture, the more erosion there is of this factor. In professional and educational settings, there tends to be quite a bit of mixing in castes.
[QUOTE=delphica]
How do people know what caste you are?
[/quote]
As was stated, usually by family name. In those parts of India where people don’t use family names, it’s not as easy.
In Bengal for example, it’s usually pretty easy to spot castes, especially high castes, although there is some crossover for particular names). The most familiar Bengali names are usually Brahmin (Chatterji/Chattophadhyay, Chakrabarti, Banerjee/Bandopadhyay, Bhattacharya, Mukherji/Mukhopadhyay, Choudhuri, Sastri, Ganguli/Gangopadhyay). Most politicians and other prominent people in Bengal are either Brahmin (priest caste), Kayastha (scribe caste: Das, Paul/Pal, Ghosh, Bose/Basu, Dutt/Datta, Biswas, Sinha, De/Day), or Vaidya/Boddi (healer caste: Dasgupta, Sen/Sengupta/Senray, Dattagupta, Gupta, Ray/Roy).
Some people say they can. Stereotypically, high caste people are supposed to be lighter skinned, taller, and generally more attractive. But that’s a stereotype.
It has happened, but in the age of records, it’s probably not as easy. It’s more usual for an entire caste group to improve its social standing as a unit.
[QUOTE=Sunspace]
Or does it go by work? Are all ditchdiggers members of a manual labour caste, for example?
If caste is related to job, what happens when new jobs come to town? What castes do they end up in. and who decides?
[/QUOTE]
Originally, castes were tied to occupation, and most names of castes are still occupational names (e.g., “dhobi” = “launderer”), but as a modern construct caste isn’t precisely about occupation. A caste is a sort of tribal group with social and political coherence. Castes have become to some extent like special interests, exercising their votes in blocs in an effort to gain political benefits and working as a group to help each other improve their class status.
As mentioned, government quotas are a key factor in economics and politics. A not insignificant proportion of officials, professionals, academics, and successful businesspeople are from lower castes.
Just wanted to clarify that telling caste by family name is not always unambiguous, especially when the name is based on a feudal title (Ray/Roy (which I’ve heard comes from French roi), Sircar/Sarkar, Chakrabarti, Mazumdar) rather than an “actual” family name.
Something small for the lady of the house, for the mother, and for each of the children is appropriate. Back in the 1970s and 1980s we would often bring things like radios, cassette recorders, and cordless telephones. But these days technology is easily available in India and some Indians take such gifts as a kind of insult (“what, you think we don’t have this stuff?”). Small, culture-specific, artsy/craftsy things are often appreciated. Usually, parents love it when their children are given books – books are always considered appropriate gifts for children.
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A coworker of mine just went back home this summer to southern India. Before she left, she was discussing what gifts she was taking (her shopping time was limited, but she knew there were expectations to meet). She said she almost always takes at least chocolates and nuts, both of which are more expensive there. I believe she also stocked up at Bath and Body Works for her female relatives.
[QUOTE=acsenray]
Just wanted to clarify that telling caste by family name is not always unambiguous, especially when the name is based on a feudal title (Ray/Roy (which I’ve heard comes from French roi), Sircar/Sarkar, Chakrabarti, Mazumdar) rather than an “actual” family name.
[/QUOTE]
Assenray .
Vey good and informative posts .
Sorry for all the spelling mistakes I made , i typed in a hurry. :o
Thanks everyone for initiating and participating in such an interesting thread. I’ve learned a lot, some of confirming things I’d expected, and some contradicting things I thought I knew.
Certainly not universal but it does happen.
what?