First a comment: At a former job, I had to do a lot of international travel…Your country had, by far, the best food! Yes, you can get great food lots of places, but in Isreal, even the “peasant” food was outstanding.
Now my question: My Isreali hosts would unfasten thier seatbelt anytime we went from freeways to in-city traffic. I asked about this, but didn’t get much of an answer. What’s the deal with that…some security precaution?
I grew up in Israel but my family left in 1979. I’ve visited four times since then.
What’s the religious/secular ratio like these days? How polarised are the two? (I know there are shades of grey, but generally speaking).
On one of my last visits (mid-90s) some friends were commenting on the culture shift between people born in the 60s and those born in the late 70s onwards. They said that the idealism and political/social commitment, sometimes verging on the puritanical, of the previous generation had been replaced by a much more hedonistic, shallow party culture. Is this really the case?
So Israel has had some serious shit happen over the past few decades.
It seems recently they have all united, to stop a Gay parade?
Seriously…is this the biggest crisis to hit Israel of late?
Can you please send me some falafel? I would love some good falafel.
Hi Alessan! I don’t know what this trash talking about Jerusalem falafel is about. Hmph. Clearly, you do not know the little falafel place on Har Hatzofim. American falafel leaves much to be desired, though. My kingdom for some pickled onions!
Israelis do not eat bagels very often. There is a small chain, Bonkers Bagles, which is the only place I ever saw what I consider a bagel. The ones in Jerusalem seemed to be entirely filled with Americans. Israelis do eat these things called bagellas, though, which are like a cross between a bagel and a pretzel. Tasty.
Recent immigrants, of course, don’t speak Hebrew, but the government does sent them to ulpan, an intensive Hebrew language course. I’ve done ulpan (at Haifa University), so if you have any questions about it, feel free. The main linguistic group that maintains a distinct identity (besides Arabs, of course) are the Russians, which is very, very common. Ethiopians seem less inclined to pass on Amharic to their kids - I tutored Ethiopian kids in English and although they were very big on being Ethiopians (when I asked them to point to where they were from on a map, they pointed to Ethiopia, even though they were born in Israel), they spoke Hebrew as their first language. Israelis study English in school, and need to be quite proficient to attend university. American movies and TV shows are very popular. That hardly anyone but other Israelis speak Hebrew is a pretty good incentive to be multilingual.
Ah, finally saw this thread… and it’s going to be answer what’s up and go to bed, too. I’ll try and help out tomorrow as well 
No, not at all. When were you in Israel? Because up to maybe 10 years ago, seatbelts were compulsory only on inter-city roads. Being the free spirits that we are, many Israelis tended to do what you decribed – junk the belt as soon as they entered city limits.
Nowadays, seatbelts are compulsory in the front seat at all times, so you won’t see the same phenomenon when you visit again.
Ratio is probably about the same, maybe 20% (of the Jews) orthodox, a similar percent completely secular and the rest somewhere in the middle (Masortim – or “traditionalists”). There seems to be more polarization now – the orthodox more orthodox, the secular more and more openly atheistic and anti-religion, and the traditionalists often forced to take sides.
Also, on the whole I would say the pendulum is swinging toward freedom from religion – not necessarily more people eschewing religion, but far less direct and indirect religious coersion of those who so not wish it. Which IMHO is a good thing.
Yes and no. Some of it is the old guard always saying similar things about the youngsters. Just like it is Everywhere, everywhen. But there has been a shift from an almost “mobilized” society, bent mostly on survial, to more of a “Me” generation, bent on living normal and fun lives. IMHO, this is, once again, a good thing (and mostly a sign that things are, on the whole, better for the individual than they were in the past)
Yes, the Gay parade that had been planned for Jerusalem in August managed to do somehting that had never happened before – unite the religious clergy of all three major religions here… (and not in favor of the parade, of course :rolleyes: ). But what deep-sixed the parade in the end was the upcoming Disengagemnt in Gaza. The police flat-out said they didn’t see how they could devote all the necessary forces to the DIsengagement and cover the parade at the same time, and basicly asked the organizers to rethink. Since Gay activists (at least in this country) tend to generally be fairly left-wing, and thus in favor of doing whatever it takes to go through with Disengagement, they eventually agreed to postpone the parade till next year.
Incidentally – we are celebrating Lag Ba’Omer tonight – that’s Jewish for “lets have a big-ass bonfire” (like Guy Fawkes day in Britain, I guess). I’m home (relatively) early because I have mid-sized (8-12) kids. Alessan could well be out partying with friends… (enjoy!)
Anyway, I’m off to get some sleep; I’ll try to contribute tomorrow as well.
Dani
…OK, off
Sorry for the delay. Sin City just opened here, and there was no way I was going to miss it.
Up until 5 years ago or so, you couldn’t get a decent American style bagel in the country, outside of the American enclaves in Jerusalem. Several bagel shops have opened recently in major urban centers - I have a Tal Bagels about 40 yards from my house - and they’re getting pretty popular.
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You’re right - personal gun ownership laws are fairly draconian, with a full background check, three-month wating period, required training and a stiff licencing fee. Generally speaking, most people who own firearms are those who need them - security guards, taxi drivers, people who work in the Teritories, etc.
Israeli culture is somewhat ambivalent about handguns, and those who carry them risk being pegged as poseurs. This only applies to pistols - while a handgun is a statement, an M-16 is just a tool and nothing to get excited about.
I’m involved in the construction business, and so have some contact with Arab contractors, building foremen and construction workers. I can’t tell you which of them are Palestinians or not. Most Israelis have less personal contact.
I’m rather unique - I was born in Israel to American immigrants, who took me back to the States before I could talk; we moved back here when I was six. My first language is thus English, but I’ve lived here most of my life and I’m perfectly bilingual.
Israel went through a massive wave of immigration during the 90’s, largely from the former Soviet Union - over a million people to a nation of 5 million. Considering that, and considering earlier waves, I’d say between a quarter and a third of the population was born here.
Most of the immigrant population under a certain age speaks fluent Hebrew, while the older people prefer their native tongue; ths is typical to immigrant societies. The newer communities tend to stick to themselves and develop their own subculture - there are Russian newspapers, restaurants, cultural events and even a Russian-language TV station. There used to be seperate Russian political parties, but by now most immigrants have assimilated into the general political culture (incidentally, Russians tend to lean right when it comes to security and economics, and left when it comes to society and religion)
Most israelis speak English because it’s taught extensively in schools (it’s second in importance only to Math), and because most foreign culture consumed - TV, music, films - is Anglophone. Tellingly, Israelis hate film dubbing; people would much rather read subtitles.
Are Yiddish and/or Ladino widely spoken? Or is the situation the same as in the States?
Ahalan Dani.
To had to what he said, bear in mind that we’re talking about the Jerusalem Gay Pride Parade. Nobody will stop the Tel Aviv parade - it’s been a hugely popular event for several years now.
Jeruslem and Tel Aviv… it’s like red state/ blue state, you know? Neither likes to admit the other exists.
Incidentally, I wish this had been a major crisis. It would mean the country was secure enough to debate non-life-or-death issues.
That’s what I love about this board…getting the real story! The press here conveniently neglected to mention the ongoing Tel Aviv parade, but then again, that is a US Media bias. Thanks for telling the whole story!
(I still love the story of the Israeli transexual who was selected for the Eurovision contest a few years ago - but we’ll leave that for a different thread!)
It was probably just before the law was changed…around 9-10 years ago, I’d have to check my passport. Actually, I was in the same Hotel in TelAviv at the same time Micheal Jackson and Liz Taylor were hiding from the press and alegations of child molestation…if you remember when that was. (Didn’t see them, didn’t know untill I got home when paparazzi finally found them)
Oh and to the Board: If you can arraing to visit Israel just before your passport expires, that would be a good time. Every airline security interviewer for every airline everywhere in the world was WAY curious about the BenGuirion stamp in my passport.
I’ve got an answer to this one, if that’s OK.
It depends where you live, and what your line of work is. My family lived in Jerusalem, and spent a lot of time in the Eastern part of the city, because the shops were open on Saturday and we could make use of facilities like the British Council Library (there were two - one in East Jerusalem and one in West Jerusalem, but the one in W. J. was closed on Saturdays).
My Dad’s job as a doctor in the state sector meant he had Palestinian as well as Israeli patients and colleagues, and there was occasional, although admittedly not much, socialising with them. We were certainly on friendly, first name terms with several shop and restaurant owners in East Jerusalem and the then ‘West Bank’. We used to enjoy going to Arab restaurants, and one unusual case was a restaurant (The Dolphin) which had joint Palestinian-Arab and Israeli-Jewish ownership, which I am told no longer exists.
Before 1973 we used to spend days out in West Bank towns like Ramallah and Jericho, but sadly this became less common for families like ours in cars with Israeli numberplates.
(I’m basing this on my experience from a good 30 years ago, so much may have changed).
I thoroughly enjoyed my 4 day tour of Jerusalem and swimming in the Dead Sea, before the War. Lately I’ve been wondering about some more important things than falafel –
What percent of the wall separating the Israeli areas from the Palestinian areas is complete and how effective is it?
Would a similar one be feasible on the US-Mexican border to control one of the biggest failures of the present (and previous) administrations?
Are uniformed armed service members allowed to march in the Gay Pride Parade?
How is the Ask and Tell policy working-that allows gays to serve openly in the military?
Would it work in the US?
I can’t answer the first couple questions you ask, but I hope I can help explain a little…it’s impossible to overemphasize how important army service is in Israel. It is HUGE. Serving in the armed forces is a major civic identifier of what it means to be an Israeli. I’ve met people who’ve made aliyah past the draft age volunteered to serve because it’s that important. There are various divisions that allow people to serve while keeping Shabbas, or segregating by gender. (Although not necessarily in the army specifically; it can be more like national service. A very religious friend of mine who was a French immigrant served for two years as guide for young Francophone girls.) Just like an American might ask a new acquaintance where they went to college or what they do for a living, an Israeli might ask what you did in the army.
To keep people out of the army for being gay would just be bizarre to Israelis. Homosexuality might not be seen as good to some, but it pales in comparison to the importance of national service.
Having never actually served in the army, I can’t say if there are any conflicts between soldiers regarding homosexuality, but gays in the military is a non issue.
Do you have a decent Mexican Resturant there? Or chinese.
How can I sign up to be a guide for young Francophone girls?
Dana International? Seems as though her win was a seminal moment in the history of the Israeli GLBT community - sort of like Stonewall without the violence.
Hey y’all.
I’d say it’s about half complete - and that half is in the most dangerous areas, so in actual effectiveness I’d say it’s closer to 80%. As to effectiveness, terrorist attacks have dropped to a fraction of what they were before it was built. This is a because of several factors including improved military effrectiveness, fatigue on behalf of the terrorists, and Palestinian efforts, but the wall gets much of the credit and is supported by a vast majority of the Israeli public.
Alomost certainly not - it’s a 40-foot concrete wall (in parts) studded with sensors, covered by sonar stations and patrolled constantly by armored Humvees. The U.S. couldn’t cover the entire Mexican border to that level without doubling its defense budget. Compare it to the North/south Korean border.
The parade is considered a political event and as such soldiers are strictly forbidden to take part. If they show up in civvies they can probably dance along without anyone taking much notice, but if they wear their uniform they’ll get into deep, deep trouble - especially if their picture shows up in the paper.
Depends. Although there are no legal barriers for gays to serve, there’s still a lot of homophobia entrenched in the ranks, and the military has done little to root it out. There have been several cases of troops drummed out of service by their comrades or commanders, with the brass not doing nearly enough to rectify the situation. It all depends on what you do and how good a soldier you are. An intelligence officer or a computer programmer can be openly, even flamboyently gay without any ill consequences so long as his COs consider him a valuable asset. I even know of one encryption wiz-kid who was allowed to serve in full drag as a female soldier, so long as he followed the proper uniform regulations, because his commaders were willing to do anything to keep him happy. Still, it’s hard to be gay in a front-line combat unit, and I don’t know many who openly are.
I have no idea.
Mexican food never really caught on here; probably because it tends to mix meat and dairy. While much of Israeli high cuisine isn’t kosher, most of the “street” food - which is what Mexican food can be considered - is, so it fals between the cracks.
Chinese, Thai and to a lesser degree Japanese cuisine is very popular, very widespread and often very good.
I s Israeli wine getting better? I tried a bottle years ago, and it wern’t too good (too sweet and nasty).
I’m not that much of a wine drinker, but yeah, wines have been getting better r3ecently. The Golan Heights vinyards especially have been producing good reds; nothing world-class, as far as I know, but perfectly decent dry wines.
First off, I forgot to thank Alessan yesterday for starting this thread – it’s something I had contemplated in the past but never brought myself to doing; he actually went ahead and did it.
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest]
Do you have a decent Mexican Resturant there? Or chinese.
[/QUOTE[I have to disagree somewhat with **Alessan** here – while there is, as he mentioned, no “street” mexican food here, there are several pretty good Mexican (or more accurately TexMex) restaurants in Tel-Aviv; *Chimichanga* comes to mind.[/quote]
As Alessan already noted, all sorts of East-Asian cuisine are plentiful at all price ranges (from little more than street vendors to high-class “gourmet” restaurants.) Japanese is lagging a bit behind but has become a lot more popular over the past few years.
Well, you see, first you do this procedure to become a Francophone female yourself… 
I hear it can be done within about 5 years…
Israeli wine makine has really taken off since then. The pace-setters were the [iRamat HaGolan* wineries, who were the first to make good wines in large enough quantity to break Carmel Mizrahi’s hegemony. We haven’t looked back since. Israeli wines have won several Monde Selection medals over the past 10 years, and , in general, have become at worst adequate and at best really, really, good