If you read my entire answer, you will notice I DID say hot drinks have bad chemicals that affect the lining of the stomach other than caffeine. Since caffeine was never specified, it’s a matter of personal revelation and interpertation. If they aren’t comfortable consuming Caffeine, they don’t do it.
That’s what I always thought too. But it says in the Book of Mormon
From Alma 34:34
The closest thing to a hitman anybody ever had was a body guard. His name was Porter Rockwell. But mobs of people, especially in Missouri, was doing their best to kill both JS and BY. It stands to reason that they had a bodyguard. IF he did kill people, he acted on his own.
If people were dragging you out of your house in order to tar, feather, and try to castrate you, you’d probably have a bodyguard too.
The mission has two purposes. First and foremost, to spread the Word of God. But secondly, to teach the young men to become responsible, independent adults. Living on your own for two years in a foreign land would do that to a person.
Young men are RECQUIRED to do this, for two years. Young Women aren’t. Young women are encouraged to go to college, get their education, and prepare to get married. Young men need to do all of this as well as serve on a mission.
This is just a general idea, but young men are not the most mature people when they are just 18.
I never said they were priests. I said that they don’t need to given the power of the priesthood, because they already have it.
One of the main things Priesthood holders do is offer blessings, especially to people who are ill, in order to cure them. Women can do that already, especially if it’s their own children. There is nothing in this world stronger then a woman’s love for her child, not even the power of the Priesthood. I think mother’s know what I’m talking about.
You want specific names or who they were in general?
My question still stands: where in the Bible does it say only certain people have preisthood authority?
I have read that all believers in any church, can be “preists” as in acting with the spirit of God.
I’m pulling this from the dregs of my memory. I wish I had some Church History books on me, but I don’t own my own set. Oh well.
God gave JS his wives. He didn’t just walk down the street and say, “Oh baby, LOOK at her! She’s my new wife.” No, that’s not how it worked. God told JS who to marry, he married her in secret in the Temple, and that was that.
I THINK a few of them were married, Needs2Know claims 11 were. If that was the case, then like I said before, they were not married in the eyes of God, so it really didn’t count.
I have a feeling that all of the women who were sealed to JS are going to be given to other men in the next world. But there’s nothing to back that up, it’s not the official stance of the Church. It’s just a lil feeling I have.
I’m sorry Pepper somehow by looking at some of your other posts I thought you might have a little insight into this subject. You just don’t. I can see that anything that contradicts what you have been lead to believe is considered anti-mormon. I would never suggest that God no longer performs miracles or that he doesn’t speak to people now as he did in ancient times. I have always tried to keep an open mind about this. But can you also not see how to be the leader of a very successful cult might just be to a guys advantage? Especially a poor guy. What I meant by “moneydigging” is that during Joseph Smith’s time there were quite a few con men going around claiming to be able to find buried treasure on people’s land. Many of them would “seed the yard” by burying a few old coins first. Then using something like his “seer stones” (Joe did use them. It’s documented.) they would pretend to look for this treasure for a fee. He’s been accused of being one of these type of con men.
On the subject of polygamy…if Joseph Smith only needed to marry these women to get them into heaven the Mormon way, then why did he need to “consumate” all of his marriages? We know he did because the LDS church keeps documents very well and there are letters in Joseph’s own hand to the families of some of these women. In one such letter he tells the parents of a young girl that he will send her brothers on a mission so since if they were to know of his “marriage” they would cause trouble. He tells them that he will come in secret and that they should never tell. If this practice was inspired by God why would he need to keep it secret from his own followers? There are just too many similarities here between Joseph Smith and Jim Jones and David Koresh. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What of the Egyptian paparus that Smith supposedly translated and now that we know how to read it turns out to be nothing more than a Egyptian funerial document? Or what of Brigham Young and his “revelation” that Adam was God! A proclamation that the church has long since abandonded. Brigham had upwards of 50 wives and he’s been linked to a massacre of over 100 men, women, and children.
I don’t know…I’ve just been thinking that if I can entertain the fact that the Bible itself has been tampered with by men who had their own adgenda down through the ages I guess I thought perhaps you might be able to do the same. I doesn’t mean that either one of us have to give up our spiritality or that we can’t take most of it on faith. I am at least glad my belief system doesn’t make it so darned hard for me to get into heaven as yours. You can’t even get in unless a man invites you.
I won’t say any more. I can see that anything that might even hint at Joseph Smith as being anything but a prophet of God will not even be considered by you. But if I were you and faced with the possiblity that a church which is so steeped in dogma and ritual as the Mormon church obviously seems to be. I would certainly do my homework. Weigh all of the facts before I rule out the possiblity that the founder of my church might have been nothing more than a very clever confidence man.
Need2know…and if he’d not then I guess I’m the one going to Hell. But what would it hurt to try and find out for sure.
I know you don’t want this turned into a debate and I will honor that wish, however, I am still not clear on your answer.
I guess I am mostly curious as to your explanation of Joseph Smith sending husbands away and then seducing their wives into marrying him. Also, your views on the very young ages of some of the other girls that he took for wives.
JFTR - I was raised Mormon (although I no longer follow the religion), but I found there is a lot of history that isn’t easily explained by church hierarchy. The wives of J.S. is one area that has never been explained to my satisfaction by the church.
The thing is Needs2Know, I have faith that the Church is the one and only true Church on Earth.
I have faith that JS was the prophet of God, and every prophet since then are also true prophets of God.
You are right, you will never make me believe that JS was anything other than a man of God, here to reestablish the true Church on Earth. Just like you will never make some people believe that there is even a God. And some people will never believe that the Bible is not the literal Word of God.
If you want people to stop believing in their Church due to pass problems and inaccuracies, well then, there wouldn’t be any Churches to follow.
Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon may have minor problems. But their overall truth are the same. Both are testements to Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Both teach his principals of Love, repentence, redemption, and salvation.
As for the Mormon Church being a very successful Cult, well, you can believe what you want. It’s not a destructive cult. The center of the Church is based on family and love, and freedom of Choice.
Every religion that is not the “norm” can be considered a cult. Every religion exhibits cult like behaivors.
My religion might very well just be a successful cult, and have no truth whatsoever. But I really don’t believe that’s the case. The LDS Church gives me hope, peace, love, comfort, choice, and chances. And it does for millions of other people.
Diane…there is a book which I haven’t read but the review I found on it is very lengthy. It was written by a Mormon and according to the review is very objective in it tone. The name of the book is “In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith” by Todd Compton. I’d love to read it myself but just haven’t found the time.
And to you Pepper I apologize. I would never do anything to shake someone else’s faith. The truth is I have nothing against someone like you who can still see the truth and beauty in your faith. There is nothing wrong with that. I however have become a cynic. I cannot reconcile the simple truths of Jesus to the monolithic, power hungry, spectacle that has become the Christian religon. I have come to view the Christian church as a monument to suppression and greed. Perhaps if I were a man I wouldn’t feel that way since spiritually in the church they seem to pretty much have it made.
I also have to chime in with this thing about the wives—
22 wives, (or more) and yet no kids. And yet being a mother is SUCH a big deal for Mormons. And apparently he didn’t even try to have kids? (NO kids from all these marriages - obviously there was no real attempt to procreate.) Wouldn’t it be some sort of act of defiance to refuse to try to have kids? Why marry, then? And if for some reason kids were not part of the equation in these particular marriages, why was there a need to consumate the marriages at all? Why deny all these women their Big Chance to produce children and become mothers? What are the odds that a man could have all these wives and yet never produce any kids?
Also, if supposedly Emma Smith pushed one of Joseph’s other wives down a flight of stairs - causing her to lose her unborn child – what does everyone in the church think of that? She caused (inadvertantly, I am sure) the death of an unborn child through her actions. Yikes!
quote:
Not quite. The women who were already married were NOT married in a Temple, therefore, were not married in the Eyes of God. JS never took any wives just cuz he felt like it. Every single one of them were given to him by God, so he could take care of them.
Not a good, or even logical argument. The marriage rites, as the LDS practice them today, were not formulated by Josepth Smith until the time shortly before his death. The concept of being “sealed” in marriage was relatively new at that time, and the temple in Navou (sorry, can’t remember how to spell the town’s name) was still under construction. It is pretty well established in Mormon history that after Joseph Smith’s assasination, the temple was completed so these new rites could be performed.
The fact remains that Smith married the wives of other men, often after sending them away on mission trips. To argue they weren’t “really married” is disingenous at best.
Please you guys give her a break here. She may not know all of this stuff. And she’s been taught that if she reads it or listens to it that it is simply made up to make her church look bad. Don’t be mean to her. Don’t be snide. We don’t have any of the answers either. Nobody really does, except the atheists and the Pagans, and the Taoists, and the Moslems, and the Buddists. LOL
The temple in Nauvoo was NOT the first temple to be built. There was on in Kirkland Ohio and another one in Missouri. JS also had the authority to perform sealing ceremonies in a Church house. BY, Heber Kimbal, John Taylor, and various others all were sealed to their wives by JS before he was murdered and the Nauvoo temple was completed. D&C SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843
What would your church leaders say about the group sex and same-sex attraction you professed you would be willing to participate in in the “Ask the Closeted Bi Guy” thread?
OK, this seems strange to me. Hot “drinks” have bad chemicals? Forget the religous aspect, this seems scientifically unsound. How does one determine what a beverage is (Is really watery oatmeal? Clam Chowder? How does heating a benign substance cause “bad chemicals” to appear? Cold water=No bad chemicals, hot water=bad chemicals? How can hot tomato juice (I’ve seen people drink this! Yuk.) have bad chemicals, but hot tomato sauce not? Hot chicken soup with rice (not a drink) doesn’t have bad chemicals but if you remove the veggies, rice and chicken and just have hot chicken broth(a drink) it suddenly has bad chemicals? If the chicken broth cools, do the bad chemicals disappear? Where do they go? What kind of bad chemicals are generated by heating liquids anyway?
Oh my, Pepperland - we are really hammering away at you here! Yikes!
I still await answers to my questions about JS and all those wives and yet no kids.
Also, since I am not unfamiliar with the RLDS church (no, not bringing up the RLDS/LDS polygamy difference of opinion thing again) why doesn’t the Mormon church own Kirtland Temple? Wasn’t there some sort of court decision way back when, and it was decided that the RLDS church was to own this temple? Why did that happen? Obviously the LDS church is bigger and has many more members.
Still awaiting the explanation regarding the young girls Joseph Smith married.
I also wonder how the husbands of the wives JS snagged accepted the “not a marriage in God’s eyes” explanation.
Pepper - Like I said, I was raised as a Mormon. Although none of my immediate family follow the religion any longer, my grandmother and other family members are still very active.
I live smack dab in the middle of Mormonville, Utah (yeah, I made up the name) and work within a city block of the Salt Lake Temple and the LDS Church headquarters. I am exposed to the members constantly and will say that, as a whole, they are a very kind group of people. I have nothing but praise for them.
I will also say that knowing what I know from years and years of soul searching and fact researching, they are extremely naive and gullible to anything that comes from the apostles.
There are so many LDS beliefs that make absolutely no sense at all when you back away and look at things with an open mind. Sadly, the members are taught never to question the doctorine.
Trying to make me look like a hypocrite huh Esprix?
Well, they wouldn’t like it. Remember way back on the OP I said that I’m currently not active in the Church for personal reasons?
Well, now you know what the personal reasons are. I haven’t actually engaged in any group sex, or bisexual sex, but I’ve thought about it, which is a sin as well. I have engaged in sexual acts with my BF. When I feel personally prepared to repent for those sins, I will. I’m only going to repent once. So when I finally do it, I better mean it. Right now I don’t feel that I live up to the responsibility of repentence.
That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the Church, or that I don’t have a testimony. I do. I made some bad decisions that I’m trying to come to terms with personally before I bring it to the attention of the Church leaders.
But it’s ok, I’ve enjoyed it. Just trying to do my best to give the Straight Dope.
I honestly don’t know how that came about. That is something I’m going to have look up.
Sorry I can’t answer all the questions right now. There are some things I just don’t know. But I will do my best to find the answers to any questions I don’t know.
Thank you for your patience.
Oh, and on the matter of coffee and tea
Go check out School of Medicine - School of Medicine scroll down where it says Herbal Teas. For some reason it won’t let me copy and paste it.
