Ordinarily I’d be happy to discuss this (indeed, it seems I’ve spent half my life arguing about these things), but I’d like to keep this thread for specific questions about the OPU. I’m not a spokesperson for the IWW, so I wouldn’t be able to answer any of these questions anyway except as a single individual representing no one’s views but my own.
I will comment on the last question though. Yes. This is a class war. When the government fences off shelter in the deadly cold for the specific purpose of preventing the homeless from seeking protection there; when the police drag my friends and comrades into parking lots and beat them up for the “crime” of being poor; when I watch people I care about sucked into a short, ugly life of drugs and crime because any legal means of escape is denied them – yes, I consider that an act of war, and I will do whatever it takes to stop it.
You say upthread that you your goal is to reduce regulation to let these panhandlers go into business as petty merchants. Well and good…but the majority of your posts and comments are about…well…smashing the state, notably the police. If you believe that reducing regulation will produce the salutary effects you ascribe to it upthread - reducing homelessness without inconveniencing anyone but a minority of business owners, why aren’t you working within the system to get that done? That would be a far better use of resources than wasting time on the police, which would at best slightly improve the living conditions of current panhandlers but wouldn’t have the far-reaching long-term benefits of legislation.
Of course it would not provide the emotional benefit of “fighting the power” and challenging authority, but if you care about results that would be a small sacrifice to make.
Then I’ll rephrase my questions so that you can provide answers for yourself or for the OPU.
The IWW, of which the OPU is a member, takes the position that all wages should be abolished. Do you and does the OPU support this position of the IWW? Do you and does the OPU believe that by abolishing all wages the resulting social and economic structure will provide better standards of living for the members of the OPU?
The IWW, of which the OPU is a member, takes the position that workers should take possession of the means of production. Do you and does the OPU support this position of the IWW? If so, precisely what do the members of your union propose to take possession of, and specifically from whom will they take?
The IWW, of which the OPU is a member, takes the position that capitalism must be abolished. Do you and does the OPU support this position of the IWW? If so, what activities are you and what activities is the OPU engaged in that are directed to abolishing capitalism, and what do you and what does the OPU propose to put in the place of capitalism?
What is your position and what is the OPU’s position on squeegee kids?
You have pointed out that it is the IWW’s position that the working class and the employing class have nothing in common. Do you and does the OPU support this position of the IWW? If so, are sole proprietors working class or employing class? Is a squeegee kid working class or employing class? Is a family who owns and runs a shop working class or employing class? Is a dentist working class or employing class? How do you and how does the OPU resolve conflicts between the interests of these various stakeholders?
What is your position and what is the OPU’s position on whether or not all people should be able to vend without regard to zoning?
Since you are at war with Canada, is there any reason why you and members of the OPU should not be locked up as POWs?
The I.W.W. takes the position that crime will disappear once the I.W.W. has succeeded in its revolutionary mission. Do you and the OPU take the position that crime will disappear once the I.W.W has succeeded in its revolutionary mission?
The I.W.W. takes the position that there will be no more poverty once the I.W.W. has succeeded in its revolutionary mission. Do you and the OPU take the position that there will be no more poverty once the I.W.W. has succeeded in its revolutionary mission?
The I.W.W. takes the position that “he who does not toil, neither shall he eat.” Do you and the OPU take the position that street people who do not work should not be given food?
The I.W.W. takes the position that there will be no shirkers once the I.W.W. has succeeded in its revolutionary mission. Do you and the OPU take the position that there will be no shirkers once the I.W.W. has succeeded in its revolutionary mission? If so, what do you and the OPU propose to do to people who shirk? Will you and the OPU force people to work? Will you and the OPU cut people off from social services if they do not work?
The I.W.W. takes the position that workers will realize power and that all other classes will disappear once the I.W.W. has succeeded in its revolutionary mission. Do you and the OPU take the position that workers will realize power and that all other classes will disappear once the I.W.W. has succeeded in its revolutionary mission? If so, what do you and the OPC intend to do with the other classes? Will you put the other classes to work in forced labour? Will you put the other classes up against the wall and shoot them?
Can an employer be a member of the I.W.W.? Can an employer be a member of the OPU?
I run my own business. I do not have any employees. I regularly hire contractors to do work for me (e.g. process servers). I regularly hire corporations who have employees to perform services for me (e.g. telecommunications). According to you and according to the OPU, am I of the working class or am I of the employing class? If the former, is it acceptable to you and acceptable to the OPU for me to hire contractors and to hire corporations who have employees? If the latter, will you or will the OPU put me into forced labour or shoot me?
[Moderator Request]Interesting questions, but I think this larger issue involving the history and workings of the I.W.W. proper belongs in its own thread, don’t you? Let’s keep the topic of this thread the O.P.U.[/Moderator Request]
It is neither a rhetorical question nor an indication of what I do or do not believe. It is a straight and relevant question, given that the OP has stated that he is in a class war.
Thank you so much SmashtheState for answering all my questions in such in-depth and thought provoking ways. From your description, Mike Harris sounds almost evil and if I lived in Canada, I could easily see me supporting your union. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
I am not particularly interested in the I.W.W., but I am quite interested in the positions of the OPU to the degree that they may reflect the positions of the I.W.W.
There is a very great difference between on one hand trying to get municipal police to stop harassing sttreet people and trying to get the provincial government to provide reasonable social services and social assistance, and on the other hand declaring class war, attempting to toss out capitalism, and creating a workers paradise.
The OP has quite proudly set out foundation of the OPU as being the I.W.W., and has chosen to point out that the I.W.W. is an organizaton of “debaters and dynamiters,” that they are in a “class war,” that the “working class and the employing class have nothing in common,” and that “the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism.” The OP has gone as far as to state that there has been an “act of war” and the OP will “do whatever it takes to stop it.”
Seeing as the OP chose to open pandora’s box, I submit that to turn a blind eye to the goals and methods of his organization would be to ignore the elephant in the corner.
You, as moderator, can of course direct the conversation away from the fundamentals, so if that is they way you will have it, then let’s get on to what the OP’s and the OPU’s position on squeegee kids.
No almost about it. The OP’s description of what the Harris government did to social services is spot on and is not exaggerated. There is a lot more that the Harris government did that I expect the OP could speak about, e.g. turning a lot of people out of psychiatric hospitals and then failing to provide appropriate care for them – a quick way to cut the provincial budget that resulted in an increase in street people.
I’m not saying we should ignore the elephant in the corner. I’m saying the elephant is so big it deserves it’s own circus(a Great Debates thread, linked to this one, of course), otherwise the questions about the O.P.U. might get shunted aside. You’ve got some good questions that I, too, would like to see answers to.
Sorry I wasn’t trying to waffle on how despicable this guy is, just that I’m typically pretty slow to label anyone “through and through” evil. Too much of a hard-line fundamentalist upbringing where that was leveled at me to throw it around without reservation and hesitation.
My business (a few blocks down the street form the I.W.W. office in my city) has a problem with street people entering our parking lot and doing two things: first, picking butts out of our smoking are butt can, and second, breaking into our vehicles. When we make a point of chasing them away, we don’t have any car break-ins.
Should we have the right to keep street people off our property?
SmashtheState, one tool you might wish to consider using when trying to protect your members form the police is to hand out used cell phones (you could exchange them for charged ones on your regular rounds). Although these phones cannot be used for regular phone calls, they can still be used to call 911 , and all 911 calls in Ottawa are recorded. That can provide some very powerful evidence, particularly if a call is made before the camera or video function is used.
missed the edit window:
Again, in all seriousness, I’m pro-union, but ought I be asking to see people’s OPU card before I give them money? Don’t want to be giving money to scabs, now, do I?
