Do you have lots of servants? South Africans whom I know who have emigrated here often comment on the difference it makes having to do household tasks themselves.
Time zone difference… give him a minute! 
And then there’s that whole “hemisphere” thing…
I am 37. I remember growing up in a country where blacks were never really around except as servants and workers. They lived in townships and everywhere I went was white only. Restaurants, schools, movie theatres. It is very different now and I do still find it difficult to forget 20 years of indoctrination. However I try my best and I don’t consider myself a racist - certainly not within our context.
I have travelled extensively in Europe and Asia and also Australia and New Zealand.
I am very positive about the future of South Africa and haven’t seriously considered staying somewhere else. But bear in mind that I have been lucky not to be touched by any crime or violence and I own my own business so my lifestyle is generally pretty good.
As an African with roots in this continent going back over 300 years I have a pet peeve about “African” Americans - but I understand them wanting to acknowledge their roots.
My first language is Afrikaans.
Yes the Afrikaners were mostly the ones pushing apartheid - bearing in mind that they "liberated"the country from the Brits and were in control. However my impression is that many Europeans, especially Germans and Brits, which I have met here are as racist if not more than many Afrikaners. Now the English speakers try to make out that they were always against apartheid but that was certainly not true for the majority, as they benefited equally.
Most South Africans don’t really follow American politics to any real extent. If I had to quickly ask 20 people what they thought most wouldn’t even know he was nominated. Personally I think it’s great because I think he is a good candidate and quite frankly anyone is better than Bush. As for him being black - he is very different to the average black in SA. He is highly educated, wealthy and light skinned. I doubt if a lot of blacks here would even consider him a black man, and certainly wouldn’t think of him as advancing the “cause”.
In my personal experience, no. It might not be PC to say it but it is much more prevalent among black people. But that is not because they are black, it is because they are poor and uneducated, and they have twits telling them to take a shower after sex and it will be fine.
If you read some of my responses here you will get more detail. Quick answer, no, I don’t think so. At one time maybe but that time has passed and I believe it will get better. That’s only my personal opinion but I believe I have good reason to think so.
I’m proud of the fact that we seem to be getting the whole “rainbow nation” thing right. We still have enormous problems but considering the history of the country I think the fact that we averted a civil war is in itself worthy of praise.
SA is nowhere near one culture. I don’t think you can appreciate to what extent middle class white and rural black cultures are different. I think there is some unification economically. In other words middle class whites and blacks are more similar and share the same culture to a certain extent. Even today the average white has no true understanding of the black culture nor of the poverty and living conditions of many people in the country.
Crime is I think the biggest issue. The problem is not so much the crime as the violence associated with the crimes. I believe the only way to change it is to start at the beginning - education. Africa has a violent history and violence comes easily to its people. It’s not poverty alone that causes the problems. If you look at poor Asian countries you find a lot of petty crime but little violent crime. The violence is cultural and endemic. I hate to spout a cliché but a life is worth little in Africa. That needs to change form an early age, where people learn of the value of life and that violence is not the answer. In the short term we need more police and better resources to curb the crime but the long term solution is education and obviously also less unemployment and more prosperity for the people.
Their is certainly a divide along economic lines. See one of my previous answers. There is certainly still a strong divide along racial lines but the more prosperous people of all cultures coexist better. Their are many cultures within the black community and a lot of times black on black violence is more prevalent than white and black violence. The reason is fairly simple. I f you are a middle class white or black person you live in a suburb, drive a car and share in the conveniences of the country. If you are a poor black person you live in a township on top of thousands of other people, not all sharing your language or culture.
There is a growing black middle class but the vast majority of people still live in general poverty. Bear in mind that poverty is relative. A poor South African is much better of than a poor Mozambican or Zimbabwean (which is the reason we have a major problem with illegal immigrants). Everything is getting better for the average citizen. Better education, more housing, better infrastructure and more jobs. However if you spent your time in the traditional white areas (which are of course now multi racial) you will not really see much difference to any other western developed country. We have big houses in tree lined streets with shopping malls around the corner. One thing that is slightly different to many places I have been overseas - our city centres are generally crap. People work there but the living conditions are terrible and it is dangerous at night and sometimes in the day too.
There is a lot of European influences in our art, music and entertainment. We also have a lot of traditional African music and art. The differences are quite vast.
I’ll use music as an example. We get all the major European and American artists in our CD stores and on radio. We also have a lot of Afrikaans music, some of which is based on your Country music. Then we have township music like Kwaito and also a lot of rap style stuff. We also have a large Indian population so we have Indian music and Bollywood films available all over as well.
I can recommend Johnny Clegg as a good introduction to a fusion of African and European music. Try this site for a selection of more traditional African music and also the new stuff influenced by rap and blues.
I’ve never personally experienced it but I understand what you mean. I’ve found that travelling abroad most people are friendly and with those that aren’t it’s not because of where you come from, they’re just unfriendly to everyone.
Ha ha very good. I didn’t realise you could see that. No that would be all Dopers. I tried searching for “Ask the” and the words were too common so I thought of the first one I could remember that would be easy to search for. Must say something about me but I’m not sure what.
Yes there are but not in the mud hut sort of way. More like the slums and ghettos of major cities in the world. We also have trailer park type of poor whites. But there are few compared to the blacks. There are a couple of white people living in townships but they are so few that they are actually a curiosity and end up on tv or the magazines. You will seldom see a white person on a train or a taxi and most still have a high standard of living (although to hear some of them wail you’d think they were stripped of all their possessions and left in the desert to fend for themselves)
That’s also a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Many English people here talk of going “home” to the UK and many Europeans are second or third generation South Africans but have hung onto their European passports. My family has been here for over 300 years. I have no other “home” but South Africa.
I’m not sure if the “rainbow nation” is a myth or if a lot of people believe it, but I think a lot of what holds South Africa together is that we have no choice. We are the last place on the continent for many refugees to come and the Boers really have no place to go. So we’re stuck together and we know we need to make it work for everyone’s sake.
Yes "kaffir"is indeed a very very bad word. We don’t say it any more. A while ago a black politician made a remark in an interview along the lines of “You think like a kaffir” and it caused enormous outrage. It is I think much more offensive than nigger.
I’ve never had Ethiopian food so I can’t say. However we have most types of food here. If you are in a city you will find Italian, Greek, French, English, Indian, Japanese and Thai. We obviously have a smaller population so some cuisines you are unlikely to find (such as Korean for example)
Traditional Boer food can be nice. It is heavily reliant on meat and potatoes but there are some interesting dishes such as pumpkin fritters and game pies.
Most poorer black Africans eat lots of “pap” (maize meal) and meat stew. There are some cultural dishes such as “marog” which tastes a bit like spinach and "mopani worms"which tastes like it sounds.
One of my all time great South African dishes is "bobotie "which is a Cape Malay dish of curried mince normally served with yellow rice and sambals. Try is, you’ll like it.
We all carry guns ready to shoot a charging rhino. 
Seriously though our cities are much like you’re used to. You won’t see any deadly animals beyond rabid bunnies. In the country however there are certainly quite a few animals that are dangerous. We have the "Big 5 " in many nature reserves and on a lot of farms. Crocodiles kill quite a few idiots who swim in rivers. We have quite a few dangerous snakes as well. One thing that is I find is different is that most South African are more aware of nature and animals than certainly most Europeans. We’ve all been to farms and seen wild animals and many of us hunt and shoot and ride horses and that sort of stuff. We are generally a lot less queasy about shooting and skinning an animal than Europeans would be.
There are some good Pinotages but I don’t think it is a great variety and I think it is generally overrated. South Africa makes some good wines but we don’t have as much of a “brand” as we should have. I also think we should spend less time on promoting specific wines and create an image for our wine regions in the same vein as the Napa Valley or Bordeaux.
Pinotage is our only "native"variety but we have some excellent Cabernet and Shiraz vineyards and we do a few good whites as well.
Wine is popular amongst the middle class but not nearly as popular as in Europe. Beer is the drink of choice here.
That you’re awesome?
As for my serious questions, do you see springboks (the animal, a type of antelope) quite often when outside of the cities? How popular is rugby compared to soccer, or any other major sports?
We have a lineout play we call Springbok, modeled after one of theirs. It’s quite effective. I’ve always cheered for South Africa, especially against New Zealand, and even have a Sasol (South African Coal and Oil) jersey plus a couple t shirts. I saw their loss against NZ live in San Diego at this year’s international 7s tourny. Heartbreaking.
Hope you don’t mind other (white) (South) Africans chipping in…
Interestingly, I have come to the opposite conclusion - I’m 38 and consider myself a racist, as I believe there is no way to grow up under Apartheid and be anything else (note that I use the racist tag in the “holding prejudiced beliefs and attitudes about people of other racial groupings” as opposed to the “kill the kaffir*” sense). However, I actively try and work against my racist instincts and think (hope) that I succeed more than I fail.
I bracketed (South) at the top of the post because I never feel entirely comfortable labeling myself as African - I grew up here, but my cultural roots are English. Both my parents had English-born mothers, and both my grandfathers (who were Afrikaaners) died young, so my parents were essentially raised English. I was raised listening to the Goons and Monty Python, went to an English-speaking school which was modeled on the great public schools of the UK (Eton, Harrow, etc), to the extent of wearing blazers and boaters in the hot African sun.
Having said all that - I am passionate about this country and would never actively choose to permanently live anywhere else. I truly believe that we can succeed as a nation and am willing to take the risk of staying here and helping to make that happen. In addition, I do also feel some sense of duty in that I was a privilaged member of society under Apartheid, and it would be wrong to take all the advantages I was given and use them to enrich some other nation.
Grim
*In answer to Retvim’s question, “nigger” is never used as an insult, to me (in my youth) it was a quaint, archaic word, mainly used to describe aniseed sweets (nigger balls). Kaffir, munt, darkie, non-reflective - these are the slurs of choice…
I have been to Maputo quite often. I have been to Angola a few times but have bad memories of the place as I was there in the Army. Although Luanda and Maputo were once great cities they were never near what Cape Town or Johannesburg have become. Also there was little else in the country besides one big city. So I do not think the comparison is accurate. SA is much more developed and has come a lot further and is less likely to be broken down as easily as Angola or Mozambique. Also remember both countries were at war for a long time and the was had a lot to do with the later downfall of the economies.
Most voting is still along racial lines to a large extent. Our politics are not as mature as first world countries and is less issues based than history based. There is some white prejudice but it depends on where you are and who you’re with.
I’m baaaack.
Gun ownership used to be very easy but has become slightly more difficult. It is however still quite easy to own a gun and many people do. There is a flood of illegal guns in the country so the criminals are well armed. However I think you are more likely to get robbed for your gun than to be able to protect yourself. Sometimes the criminals work in large groups armed with AK47s and your handgun will do little to protect you.
Hunting rifles and shotguns are common and many people hunt game. Shooting as a sport is also quite popular as is bow hunting and archery.
Ooh, that’s a loaded question. Honestly, yes, i sometimes do. Not because of racism but because it was better in many ways where I lived. We could play in the streets, crime was low and there was no litter. I am however aware that that was not the case for the majority of South Africans and I am convinced that Apartheid is wrong.
Were the blacks in South Africa better or worse off, in terms of the average living conditions, under white rule than they are now?
Surely the vast majority of the crime in South Africa, as it is in the United States, is black-on-black. Right?
Do you resent that the rest of the world treated South Africa as a pariah when it was under white rule, and acted like they knew what was best for the country to do, and now that they’ve got their wish, it’s gone downhill economically and in terms of crime, AIDS and other problems?
We have someone come in to clean and iron. I also have a gardener come in on Saturdays. Many whites and a lot of middle class blacks have servants. Some have live in servants that also help look after the kids. The reason for this is not necessarily racists but economical. Even at a fairly average middle class income you can afford someone for a few days a week to come in and clean. Our unemployment is high and many people are available at low wages for menial jobs.
Springboks are a lot less common than “rooibok” (Impala ) who we call McDonalds because there’s one around every corner. If you go to the “bushveld” however you will see plenty of Springbuck and many other antelopes.
The simple answer is rugby is popular among whites and soccer is primarily black. But the lines are getting blurred. However if you were in a pub in a white suburb Rugby would be on tv and in a black area, soccer.
Geen probleem.
I agree with your understanding of the word racist. I don’t think you can seriously get rid of everything that was so much a part of your life for so many years. However if I compare myself to some people I know I am positively saintlike. I’ve sat in on conversation where the talk is on how the kaffirs are ruining the country and they should all be shot. I’m sure you know exactly what I mean.
I’m not sure whether you are male or female, but my question is this: what crafts are big in your country? I remember reading about quilts being popular, but what about yarn/thread crafts? If you’re male, could you have a mate/close relative answer?
Love, Phil
In that sense, I think we’re all racists. I know I am. I just make sure I don’t make decisions or hold opinions based on my racism.
Non-reflective? That’s a mighty… what’s the word here… sophisticated racial slur, that is.
Is this socially accepted? Is it “okay” so to speak, in general white African culture, to want all kaffirs shot or to want apartheid back?
Was Leonardo DiCaprio’s accent in Blood Diamond (sample here if you haven’t seen it) reasonably accurate?
What are your views on Nelson Mandela? Winnie Mandela?
Some would say better and some would say worse. It depends on who you are and whether you have benefited form affirmative action. I think that generally they are better off now. Unfortunately only a small minority of blacks profit from the new regime and we are creating a bit of a black elite without looking after the poor.
In the best times the blacks were fairly well looked after but during the worst times of the old regime the townships were war zones. I’m sure not many people would want to go back to those days.
Yes to a certain extent but remember it hardly helps stealing from someone as poor as you are so of course any rich white person is a target. A lot of violence is tribal and cultural and that is certainly mostly black on black.
Personally, I saw no major impact with the sanctions beyond sport, where we were not allowed to compete internationally for a long time. In fact to some extent it helped some of our industries become stronger. I was young however and might not have been so aware of the major brunt of the sanctions.
I don’t think South Africa has gone downhill. In fact in many ways our economy is stronger and growing. Of course there are a lot of people that long for the “good old days” but I think if you embrace the changes you can be even more successful now than in the past.
A lot of problems were created by Apartheid’s “protected” employment of whites who in any free market economy would have been required to be more productive. So we were left with a bloated and inefficient civil service that now suddenly has to address the needs of 50 million people and not just 5 million. It will take much more than the last 14 years to get rid of the problems form the past.
When I was a teacher in Cape Town (last century) we had a presentation, part of which looked at the disparity between the money given to white schools per pupil and the money given to school for the other racial groups under Apartheid. White schools were allocated 10 times more per pupil than black schools and since they make up 80% and more of the population, if you were to equalise the spending, it would mean that the white schools would get just one quarter of the money that they would have got in the past. It would be fair to assume that this disparity existed in all walks of life, and so it is understandable that white South Africans feel that standards are dropping, because they are only having 1/4 of the resources devoted to them that they are used to. Things were much better for us under the Apartheid regime because we were the favoured child and the non-white populations were kept forcibly in their place. Many people mourn this as a loss instead of seeing it as a justifiable movement toward equity.
For many black South Africans, things have improved immensely - there are more houses with running water, electricity supply and refuse removal than there have ever been, but for many more, nothing has changed. Unemployment runs at between 30 & 40% and almost 60% of the population live below the poverty line (although this differs wildly by region, from 32% to 77%). This is one of the reasons that Jacob Zuma has been elected president of the ANC (and thereby is president-elect of South Africa) - that many people feel that there has not been enough done to improve the lives of the poor (for which one should read Black people).
Grim
I would agree with you, but most people don’t like to be told that they’re racist, particularly in this country, as it still has the bigot tag attached.
That was really tongue-in-cheek, although it is used as “PC slur” if you like.
That would depend on who you are with - as Dangle says, there are some who openly express this opinion, there are many places where you would never express it, even if you think it.
Not the worst I’ve heard by a long way - that distinction (I think) belongs to the swimmer in Murial’s Wedding, or some of the flunkies in whichever Lethal Weapon episode it was.
Nelson, more than any other human being (honorable mention to Desmond Tutu), is responsible for South Africa’s peaceful transition to democracy. Many whites fear that there will be trouble when he dies, although it may be that the communal mourning will bring us together. Winnie went a little nuts post-1994 and has largely been derided and disregarded, although she still wields significant influence within the ANC.
Grim
I’m male and I’m not the most qualified to answer this but I’ll try.
Quilting is big amongst older people. I’m not sure how many youngsters still do it. I can remember everyone’s grandmother making quilts. Knitting is popular, as is needlepoint. In fact my grandmother taught me to knit and my daughter has also learnt it form her mother.
The newer stuff is of course scrapbooking which seems to have taken off here like wildfire.
I’ve seen most things around at some stage from candle making to mosaics to macramé.
It depends on the group you’re with. Amongst professional business people and certainly among the younger people it is taboo. If you’re in a group of older people and also more blue collar worker types it is not only acceptable it is sometimes almost expected. Of course no one would admit to this in public.
You must remember that most people of my age and older were conscripted into the army and were indoctrinated for years about the “swart gevaar” (the black danger). We were also involved in a border war for many years and a terrorist in our culture is a black man with a gun. You can’t just forget that just because of a piece of paper that says apartheid doesn’t exist. If you had friends shot by black “terrorists” you can’t easily forget. Sort of like the Americans and Muslims after 9/11. (the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is which side of the fence you’re sitting)
It’s not bad but not 100%. The soldiers in the movie were South African and if you listen to their accent you’ll get the idea.
Nelson Mandela is a good reflection on the country but he’s not nearly as saintlike as people make him out to be. However, I think he was very brave in becoming a peaceful supporter of change after being in prison for 40 years and I doubt many people would have that attitude instead of seeking revenge. All in all he’s one of the best things that could have happened to the country.
Winnie Mandela should be in prison as she is a thug and murderer.
About the murder(s). This may just reflect my staggering ignorance, but I never understood what the motive was. Why kill young black activists?
Winnie believed Stompie Sepei to be a police informant. Many people were killed for this alleged betrayal - necklacing (put a car tyre around the neck douse liberally with petrol and set on fire) was a common means of execution in the townships.
My son was born in South Africa … Nelspruit, to be exact. South Africa, while fraught with problems, is such a fantastic place, with such incredible potential. Now some questions:
Has there been much “white flight” of professionals?
Do you think sexism (among any of the various cultural groups) is holding the country back?
Who is your favorite South African writer?
Yes there has quite a bit. Crime and violence is one reason. Affirmative action is another. The fact that many whites have European roots and have European passports makes it easy for them to go to Europe. White South Africans are also the product of a very good school and university system and are regarded as hard workers so they can easily get jobs in countries such as Australia and the UK. Although I personally think the standard of living in SA is good (and a lot is what you make of it), obviously the standard of living in many places is better. Many people leave to give their kids a better education and safer life as the quality of education in public schools has slipped and private schooling is expensive.
There is however a movement to bring a lot of them back. Skills shortage is a big problem at the moment and one reason is that qualified white males (who are the backbone of the professional classes) find it hard to get a job and so are forced to leave the country or go into small businesses.
Yes to a certain extent although I think there are a lot more serious problems. In both the traditional Afrikaans and African cultures women are seen as inferior and should stay at home to cook and raise kids.
Interestingly our Constitution and the Black Empowerment movement entrenches protection and advancement for women. For example black women are considered the least empowered and companies seeking to employ staff will first look at a qualified black women before anyone else. Unfortunately they have traditionally been denied education and there is a still very long way to go.
I’ve always liked Herman Charles Bosman as he writes stories about the areas I know and love. He is, I think, considered to be our foremost short story writer. I like Dalene Mathee’s books like Circles in a Forest but I read it in Afrikaans. Bryce Courtenay is good (if you consider him South African - he was born here but I think he lives in Australia). There are a few Afrikaans writers that I like but as with many languages you’ll lose a lot of the essence in translation. For example I used to read a series of books called “Trompie” about a boy and his dog and his friends on a farm. A bit like some of Enid Blyton’s books. I can’t imagine it in English as you’ll lose all the subtle nuances of the language that makes it funny and great.
For Poets, Breyten Breytenbach has always been my favourite.