Asking for a refund after walking out on a movie

Cafe Society
101

[QUOTE=treis]
Live performances are more of a crap shoot, but yeah I would. For example if the main act came on for only 5 minutes stoned out of their mind, I’d want my money back. Or if the actors flubbed lines enough to make me want to walk out after 10 minutes. You’re not being fair here either. We aren’t talking about movies that don’t catch my fancy. We are talking about movies that are so bad that I can’t stand them for more than 10 minutes.
[/QUOTE]

We’re being completely fair. You’re bringing up technically bad performances–ones in which the actors or the band have screwed up royally. If a theatre fulfills its obligation to show you a technically well-projected movie in an appropriate atmosphere, why should your taste be their problem?

A more apt analogy would be going to see a Locust concert. Their music consists of fast, loud, anarchic one-or-so-minute numbers that many would consider crap, but still others enjoy. I could imagine many a person walking out after 10 minutes of a perfectly “good” Locust performance. It’s not the venue’s fault you don’t like the band. You should have researched what you were seeing before buying the ticket.

102

[QUOTE=treis]
How silly. Politely asking for your money back doesn’t make you a bully.
[/QUOTE]

It does if you demand to see the manager after being told “No” by the staff, knowing full well that if you complain enough you’ll get what you want (ie, your money back).

We’re actually seeing a disturbing trend at work lately, which involves people bypassing the stores completely and going to head office for problems, most of which are trivial and can easily be sorted out at store level (broken $50 DVD players, that kind of thing). Of course, Head Office blame us for not sorting the problem out in the first place (Problems we were completely unaware of because the customer didn’t tell us about them). In short, customers are getting more and more unreasonable every year, and good staff are getting harder and harder to find as a result. Retailing for a lot of things may have to move online since it may be difficult to keep a large number of stores open when there’s no staff willing to work in the field.

Now, I accept that (in relation to the Widget example) most retailers will happily swap over things or provide store credit because of an incorrect colour or whatever, and that’s fine, to an extent. But full refunds aren’t appropriate- you’re the one who made the mistake and got the wrong colour.

103

[QUOTE=pulykamell]
We’re being completely fair. You’re bringing up technically bad performances–ones in which the actors or the band have screwed up royally. If a theatre fulfills its obligation to show you a technically well-projected movie in an appropriate atmosphere, why should your taste be their problem?

A more apt analogy would be going to see a Locust concert. Their music consists of fast, loud, anarchic one-or-so-minute numbers that many would consider crap, but still others enjoy. I could imagine many a person walking out after 10 minutes of a perfectly “good” Locust performance. It’s not the venue’s fault you don’t like the band. You should have researched what you were seeing before buying the ticket.
[/QUOTE]

If I had researched the show beforehand I wouldn’t have bought a ticket, so what’s the theater out if they refund my ticket? As I noted prior, the economics of live theater vs. movies are different. I fully recognize that I would probably be told to go pound sand. However, if they didn’t tell me to go pound sand my view of the theater would improve, and I would be more likely to patronize it in the future. That’s the calculation any business has to make. For movie theaters it makes sense to refund the customer his money.

[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]

It does if you demand to see the manager after being told “No” by the staff, knowing full well that if you complain enough you’ll get what you want (ie, your money back).
[/quote]

Please, a 7 dollar movie ticket isn’t worth that much time or effort. All that I would do is give the manager an opportunity to rectify the situation, and if he doesn’t inform him that he’s lost any future business from me.

[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]

We’re actually seeing a disturbing trend at work lately, which involves people bypassing the stores completely and going to head office for problems, most of which are trivial and can easily be sorted out at store level (broken $50 DVD players, that kind of thing). Of course, Head Office blame us for not sorting the problem out in the first place (Problems we were completely unaware of because the customer didn’t tell us about them). In short, customers are getting more and more unreasonable every year, and good staff are getting harder and harder to find as a result. Retailing for a lot of things may have to move online since it may be difficult to keep a large number of stores open when there’s no staff willing to work in the field.

Now, I accept that (in relation to the Widget example) most retailers will happily swap over things or provide store credit because of an incorrect colour or whatever, and that’s fine, to an extent. But full refunds aren’t appropriate- you’re the one who made the mistake and got the wrong colour.
[/quote]

Big Box retail stores aren’t noted for their customer service. I’m not surprised that someone would go straight to Corporate if that got things done. It might not be the right thing to do, but I can certainly sympathize with the motivations.

As to the rest of your post, being able to return something in new condition for any reason is an expectation of customers. If your store doesn’t want to do so, then don’t. Be prepared to lose customers though.

104

[QUOTE=treis]
For movie theaters it makes sense to refund the customer his money.
[/quote]

No it doesn’t. There’s not that much competition amongst theatres anyway, and if they lose your business, so what? There’s plenty of other people who go to the movies anyway, and it’s going to cost more than $7 in effort and time to keep you happy, so it’s not worth the hassle for them, IMHO.

If you tried that here, you’d be laughed out of the cinema by management and staff alike. My fiancee’s sister used to work for one of the cinema chains, and their response to “The movie sucked and I want my money back!” was “No. Have a nice day and please direct any further discussion to that brick wall over there.”

Big Box retail stores aren’t noted for their customer service for a variety of reasons, one of which stems from low pay (bought about by customers wanting low prices), and the other of which stems from the fact that customers are, by and large, peasants (for want of a better term). Now, an individual customer can be nice, pleasant, and so on- but overall, as a group, customers are thoroughly unpleasant, selfish, and often idiotic. You deal with that for 50-60 hours a week and see if it doesn’t affect your outlook on life.

I’m not talking about “returning stuff in new condition”, though- I’m talking about stuff that’s obviously been used. We’ve had people return $1500 laptops because they were too stupid to operate them, and head office made us take the refund. And what do we discover? A throughly fucked up computer that requires a complete reset to factory settings and a thorough antivirus/antispyware scan, and a computer which then has to be sold at or below cost price to shift it. All because of people who can’t be bothered reading the manual.

105

Then why do they do it? Fifteen words or more, please, not starting with “Those [fucking/damn/bastard/pissant/etc.] customers”.

Well, the cinema business is obviously different in Australia than in the places where most of the people in this thread are talking about, no?

The manual tells them how to keep from getting viruses and spyware? :dubious:

My (little, I’ll grant) experience in office tech support and home computer consulting leaves me raising an eyebrow at that one.

106

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
Then why do they do it? Fifteen words or more, please, not starting with “Those [fucking/damn/bastard/pissant/etc.] customers”.
[/quote]

Then why do they do what?

The Antivirus/Antispyware is just a precaution, but given the number of customers that are genuinely surprised that you have to pay for the internet (I’ve had people think that all you have to do is plug the phone line in and hey presto, its free interwebs ahoy!) that we figure anything is possible.

And the last time I looked at a manual for a computer, I do recall it mentioned the importance of antivirus and antispyware software…

107

Three guesses. Hint: It’s in the title of this thread.

Does it actually teach people how to prevent viruses and spyware?

108

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
Three guesses. Hint: It’s in the title of this thread.
[/quote]

Why do people ask for refunds after walking out of movies? I don’t know, I’d never do it myself. If I go to a movie that I don’t like, that’s my problem for not doing my research first. It’s not the theatre’s fault I didn’t like the film. My best guess as to why people do it? Because we’re living in a society where people are taught to behave like spoiled children and throw a tantrum until they get what they want, ie their $7 back even though they’re the ones that fucked up.

Getting antivirus/antispyware is the first step there (the idea for n00bs is that they get a programme like Norton or McAfee that does everything for them). You don’t expect a car sales guy to show you how to drive, and you shouldn’t expect a computer sales guy to teach you how to operate a computer- especially when the going rate for computer lessons is upwards of $50 an hour.

109

No. Why do movie theaters give refunds to people who ask?

I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about the manual.

110

There seem to be some faulty analogies being tossed around here. Asking for a refund at the movie theater is NOT like returning a product one doesn’t like, nor is it like asking for a refund in a restaurant when one simply doesn’t like the food.

The difference is that in the retailer’s case, you’re asking the store to take a loss, because (if I understand correctly) an opened and used item can’t be sold as new. They might be able to sell it at a discount as a “floor model,” but that’s the best they’ll get; you’ve detracted value from the product. In the restaurant’s case, even if you didn’t take more than one bite of the food, they still can’t sell it to someone else.

In the theater, though, you’re not asking them to lose one dime (unless the show is a sellout). It costs them nothing to simply let you into the theater.

I really see nothing wrong with politely asking what their policy is on refunds. I would never be “an unreasonable bully” about it, but I can’t see any problem with simply asking if it’s theater policy to give a refund in this case. If they say no, then fine; I took a risk (that I would pay to see a movie I didn’t like) and I lost. I’m asking them to do me a favor, which would generate considerable goodwill on my part. I wouldn’t suggest that the theater is obligated to do so, and I wouldn’t think I’m “entitled” to a refund, but it would hurt nothing to ask.

111

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
No. Why do movie theaters give refunds to people who ask?
[/QUOTE]
It’s easier for a manager to give back the money than risk having a drama queen bully them and cause a scene. Also likely, because someone who’d do something so outrageously audacious is clearly unstable and might be likely to become violent if denied.

112

I’m well aware of why managers give back refunds. I was asking a rhetorical question of Martini Enfield, who said:

And: Unstable? Violent? You’re kidding, right? People ask for refunds at movie theatres because they get them. I wouldn’t do it, but I think if I gave a particular theater lots and lots of my business and went to the manager once in two or three years and ask for a pass to another movie, it would be perfectly reasonable for them to give me one. Granted, I never have, nor have I asked for a refund, because so far I haven’t spent my own money on a movie I’ve disliked that much. But I don’t think it’s the moral outrage that some people here are making it out to be. Violent? Sheesh. First you call me a racist–no wait, almost call me a racist–and now you claim that people who ask for refunds at the movies are psychopaths waiting for some pimple-faced manager to set off their next killing spree with the word “no”. Remind me: who’s the drama queen?

113

[QUOTE=jackelope]

I really see nothing wrong with politely asking what their policy is on refunds. I would never be “an unreasonable bully” about it, but I can’t see any problem with simply asking if it’s theater policy to give a refund in this case.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, absolutely. If the theater has a policy for refunding walkouts within a certain period of time, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with asking. I just don’t think movie-goers should assume they deserve a refund if they walk out of the movie fifteen minutes in.

And regarding the refund of tangible items and the such, there’s plenty of analogies in this thread that are on-point, like art museums, sports events, concerts, etc., where refunds are not generally given for early departure.

114

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
And: Unstable? Violent? You’re kidding, right? People ask for refunds at movie theatres because they get them.
[/QUOTE]
They get them because managers are too timid to tell the entitled fuckhead to go fuck themselves. I guess the amounts are small ($7-10), so it’s not THAT big a deal. You’re not going to get a refund from a Broadway play or a sports game or live concert just because you’re not enjoying yourself, partially because the amounts involved are almost always much higher. Funny though, no one in this thread has said (that I’ve seen) that they WOULD ask for refunds at any entertainment venue other than a movie theater. Something about movie theaters brings out the worst in some people. They think they can talk on their cell phones or talk to each other during the film or ask for unwarranted refunds just because they can.

I do love movie theaters and luckily don’t run into assholes very often, but hearing about such things is upsetting.

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
First you call me a racist–no wait, almost call me a racist
[/QUOTE]
You said
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
“The Great Debaters (root for the black kids so you can say you’re a good person)”
[/QUOTE]
Which is pretty fucking close to a racist remark to me.

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
and now you claim that people who ask for refunds at the movies are psychopaths waiting for some pimple-faced manager to set off their next killing spree with the word “no”. Remind me: who’s the drama queen?
[/QUOTE]
The thing is, it’s anti-social to ask for a refund you in no way deserve and that is (still, thank goodness) not socially acceptable to demand. It’s anti-social in a self-absorbed, entitled way. Anyone who’s already so self-absorbed and entitled is a spoiled brat, and spoiled brats can fly off the handle. I’m not being a drama queen, I’m stating some of the things that I was taught to look out for when trying to spot a potential trouble source.

115

My favorite theater is good about refunds for tech issues. The last time was at *Ratatouille * where the sound was messed up for the first half of the movie. Myself and other patrons had to go out and complain. We finished the film after the sound was fixed and a manager was waiting at the exit handing out free ticket coupons to every person who exited. I wouldn’t have gone for a refund, but that kind of service is a reason why I like the place.

The only time I had to argue for a refund was for The Return of the King. I am a serious LOTR fan and went the second day of release. The theater was filled with asshole teens who wouldn’t shut their yaps or turn off the phones. We moved twice but we realized that no matter what we did (moving, asking nicely for people to pipe down, asking not-so-nicely) we wouldn’t be able to see the film in peace. After 20 minutes I went out and asked for some usher to come in do something. Ten minutes more, with no response from management to try to quell the near riot and we left, having to almost cause a scene in the lobby to get a refund. We never returned to that cinema.

I did have a strange refund related experience when I went to see Unbreakable. As the ticket girl sold me the tickets she said that if we wanted a refund we needed to come out before (certain time equalling 20 minutes into the film). She said the movie was so bad that most patrons were asking for refunds. I set my watch, but I liked the film enough not to take her up on the offer. I can think of dozens of films that should have come with such a disclaimer, but *Unbreakable * was the only one that ever did. Weird.

116

Then why is it universally accepted that such “entitled fuckheads” can get their refunds/passes if they ask? Every single movie theater manager is too timid to buck the trend, independent of each other? Or is it more likely that our culture has deemed that a movie theater is one place where you can get your $7-10 back if you ask?

Now we’re being rational. Thanks.

Really? Because what I meant is that it’s the film industry that’s racist. I’ll give you that what you quoted from me is not the clearest way I could’ve said that, but I was trying to fit my jugdment of each movie in a space of about 20 words or less. My perception is that there are a lot of people who pat themselves on the back after watching Coach Carter or Remember the Titans because they got the point and they agree with it, and then they don’t do enough to fight racism in their communities because they can point to superficial things like those movie-watching experiences as justification that they’ve fought enough of their own ignorance. My uncle is like that; AFAICT he moved to a white-bread “box state” mostly to minimize his contact with racial minorities, but he feels good about himself because of token little things like watching feel-good movies and rooting for the black kids. Yet he’ll still cross over to the other side of the street if he sees a black person on the same sidewalk he’s on. That is what I despise–not the movies themselves, although I wouldn’t choose to make a movie of that genre because it’s such a “safe” topic now. My limited film experience has been in stirring the pot in more contentious issues like drug policy in schools, mental illness, etc. I would have more artistic respect for someone who made a movie about, say, the Illinois (Iowa? Idaho?) high school where every student shaved every hair on their bodies for the first day of hair-based drug testing; or, say, the contribution of Reaganomics to urban destabilization in America; or something like that, than someone who makes a “feel-good” movie of any sort, especially one that every rational audience member is going to agree with.

All I’m saying is that I like to be challenged (intellectually and emotionally) by a movie. I often take long breaks where I settle for clever takes and new themes that at least get me thinking and debating, even in a fairly light-hearted way like Juno does. Rarely do I settle for mere entertainment, and I never settle for a tug or two at the heartstrings. That’s just my taste in movies, and that’s why I’m not a big fan of the current movie lineup. I don’t see where a movie about the relatively minor successes of a college debate team that apparently did not have a whole lot of impact on the civil rights movement is going to satisfy my movie-watching criteria.

I simply don’t agree that it’s that anti-social or socially unacceptable. At worst, it can’t be any more unacceptable than, say, yelling at a Target return clerk, and I think most peoples’ reaction to the latter scene is “wow, what a bitch” rather than “wow, I’d better put on some Kevlar”.

117

Couldn’t fit this in the 5 minute edit window:

I think that (my blurb on The Great Debaters that Equipoise posted) is from another CS thread. For those who didn’t see it, Equipoise had said that the movies that are in theaters right now are pretty good overall, and I went through a list of every single movie playing at the nearest AMC theater with a 10-20 word blurb about what I thought about it (whether or not I’d seen the movie). When my remark about The Great Debaters sparked, heh, debate, I clarified that I was tired of seeing almost every single black actor shoehorned into the pusher/cop/addict/prostitute/inspirational coach spectrum. I meant that I wish we could have fewer of the feel-good black-team-beats-white-team movies to “prove” that black students can rise to a challenge, which we already know as a society, and instead have more black characters save the world, lead covert ops missions, etc., which would be a great benchmark for the next step forward in egalitarianism for our society, IMO.

118

[QUOTE=Equipoise]
The thing is, it’s anti-social to ask for a refund you in no way deserve and that is (still, thank goodness) not socially acceptable to demand.
[/QUOTE]
Say what? It’s antisocial just to ask? Even if you ask politely, and put a disclaimer into the question that lets the askee refuse without losing face?

Suppose I walk out of the theater 15 minutes into the movie and say to a theater worker, “Hey, I don’t want to be a dick about this or anything, but I somehow had the notion that that movie starred Michael Caine, and instead it’s got Yahoo Serious; now I have no desire to watch it. It’s totally my fault; I should have read the poster more closely. What’s your policy on refunds?”

Are you suggesting that I would be antisocial for asking that question? And if so, are you one of those people who demands gas money when a friend asks you for a ride to the airport?

119

[QUOTE=jackelope]

In the theater, though, you’re not asking them to lose one dime (unless the show is a sellout). It costs them nothing to simply let you into the theater.

[/QUOTE]

If this is true, and it isn’t, then why bother charging admissions in the first place, especially since they make their money on concessions? When you have one person with a sense of entitlement and look at only yourself you say ‘hey, what’s the big deal’, but then apply that to the general public and suddenly we have a problem paying the electric bill, employees’ wages and other overhead.

120

[QUOTE=TommyTutone]
If this is true, and it isn’t, then why bother charging admissions in the first place, especially since they make their money on concessions?
[/QUOTE]
I won’t pretend to know how movie theater finances work. Obviously they charge admission because they need to bring in money; I presume the income from concessions isn’t enough to cover the bills. I think this is beside the point, though.

You say it’s not true that it costs the theater nothing to let you in; would you elaborate on that? What does it cost the theater to let you in? There’s the de minimis cost of the ticket-seller’s time, I suppose, and the cost of the ticket itself. Is there some other cost that I’m overlooking? I.e., a cost that the theater would not have incurred if you had not bought the ticket in the first place?

Perhaps you meant to direct this toward someone else. I’ve tried to make it clear that I don’t think anyone is “entitled” to a refund. I’m also not “entitled” to have a friend help me move, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask. If the answer is no, then fine; I understand that and I’m not going to press the issue.