Asking if a celebrity is gay

Factual Questions
21

Couple of thoughts…

I agree that gays and lesbians should come out of the closet. But in the atmosphere surrounding gays today (DOMA, “don’t ask, don’t tell”, those blasted full-page ads last summer saying “gays can convert and be loved by God again”, Matthew Shepard, Billy Jack Gaither, and that fellow from Richmond) coming out of the closet is a real step, not just saying you’re comfortable with who you are but that you’re willing to actively fight to defend yourself. Many people just aren’t up to that, at least at some point in their lives.

Personally, I wouldn’t agree with matt_mcl’s statement about “straight guys” not being attractive. I’m straight; I’ve experimented and found what I like. :slight_smile: But even before I did that, and even now, I get approached by gay men and hit on. It’s no big deal! I’m flattered. The point is, though, that they don’t know I’m straight, nor do I know they’re gay, at least until things come to that point. So maybe I’m a living refutation of matt’s statement, I don’t know.

Just my 0.02…

All Hail Unca Cecil, or the next best thing available!

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[[[As Matt said, "And what the hell is this straight-boy terror of gay guys looking at
them? Excuse me, excuse me, straight boys… you’re not THAT attractive! Besides, even if I were attracted to a straight guy, I know at least TEN gay guys who are as if not more
attractive than him, and whom I could get into bed a lot easier… oy! the arrogance. "

Phil might not have liked this response, but it was correct in a lot of ways.]]]

My problem with the response was at least twofold:

  1. It generalized straights to a degree that gay men are uncomfortable with when applied to themselves. Most of the straight men I know don’t give a damn whether they are being checked out by gay men or not. And, believe me, I live in an area of NE Ohio with one of the largest gay populations around.

  2. I also know from experience, having gay friends and at one time having worked for a boss who was gay, that many times their conversation, just like straight women, revolves around what hunky Hollywood actor they’d like to have in the sack, gay or not.

  3. Again, just as straight women often look at attractive gay men and say, “Oh, if only . . .” or “What a waste . . .,” gay men (in my experience) look at straight men and say the same.

Let’s not pretend it doesn’t happen, folks; and let’s not pretend that matt’s comments were anything but the kind of stereotyping that would make him squirm if reversed. I think there’s room for plenty more understanding and less stereotyping on both sides of that equation.

** Phil D. **
“Not only is the world queerer than we imagine,
it is queerer than we can imagine.”
–J.B.S. Haldane

23

Crap, I wasn’t going to open this can of worms, but, in light of Phil’s last post eloquently stating why he responded to Matt’s generalization, I take issue with Skinsfan’s opening paragraph especially when coupled with the last sentance of the post. Just because one holds views that are not considered “mainstream” does not make that person open-minded. Nor does holding “mainstream” views make a person closed-minded. Having an open mind indicates that one is able to hear the views of others, examine against their own and reach an independent conclusion. The views one holds after reaching those conclusions are irrelevant. Open or closed mindedness is a means to an end, not the end itself.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. – William James

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you will suck forever.

24

Okay, time for my apology. I like this message board and I don’t want to make any enemies here. I was drunk and looking to pick a fight. It’s an old habit I need to get rid of. Bit here it is. I’m not prejudiced against anybody. I even know a few gay people and consider them wonderful human beings. Like Martin Luther King, I judge only by the content of a persons character and not the color of his/her skin, or sexual preference. Genetic, or not genetic, who’s to judge who has the better genes?
I’m not gay, but if I were and came out with it, there would be a lot of people who will be hurt by this revelation. My mother for example. I would weigh into consideration all benefits and consequences before deciding such an irrevocable course of action. The world is not a forgiving place. As for asking a celebrity if he/she is gay, well, use your discretion but remember there are other things in the balance. You may choose to be a martyr, but for others, they may have a different cause.

25

Terribly sorry for all of this. That’s the last time I steal a joke from a comedian. What I/she meant was the following: there seems to be an inverse relationship between how much certain straight men think that gay guys are lusting after them, and how attractive they really are. The whole phenomenon of assuming that gay guys are attracted to any man they see (honey, Ernest Borgnine is not on my list) annoys me no end. I went overboard in expressing this. Attractive straight guys, therefore, will please accept my sincere apologies.

Blessed Be,
Matt McLauchlin
Montreal, Quebec

26

Now, as this thread began with discussing whether stars should be asked about their sexuality, I’d like to get back to that and make a point I did not see as I went through the previous posts.

Heterosexuality is assumed in our society as being the mode of every man and woman in America. You are straight until proven otherwise, even if you are Liberace.

NOW… I think it is a valid question for a few reasons:

  1. To show people that there are plenty of gays and lesbians in Hollywood that many adulate as ‘heroes’ or rolemodels

  2. To demystify the stereotyping that all lesbians are butch dykes and all gay men are swishy queens

  3. To get people over the thought that one sexual preference is superior, more holy, or more fulfilling than another

  4. To get Richard Gere to admit the gerbil story is true

  5. For Richard Simmons to admit he is straight

Finally… to stop the bloody debate which focuses on causality and illness models to attempt to define the genesis of homosexuality.

I’m more concerned with the genesis of bad taste, the desire to wear polyester, and the compulsion to listen to Rush.

‘So many morons, so few bullets.’

27

I would like to see research continue to attempt to explain how homosexuality comes about, simply because it’s interesting. I wouldn’t want the results of this research to be used as a tool for more discrimination against gays, though.

I’m of the mind that one’s sexual preference is out of their control, regardless of whether it’s nature or nurture. I’m attracted to women, and only certain women, and I have zero choice over that. I’m not even in control over WHICH women I’m attracted to, let alone women vs men.
Whether it’s because of my genetics or my upbringing, who cares? I had no control over either. I imagine it’s the same for gays.

Hmm, this might be a good topic for a new thread… Nice and controversial, should get good responses. Look for on a BBS near you!

– Revtim

28

hey, Hey, HEY! Careful what you say about Rush, Moving Pictures is one of my all-time favorite albums!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you will suck forever.

29

Of course, one of the biggest dangers there is, what if they find a “cure” for homosexuality? What if it is actually determined by your genes and they come up with genetic therapy that can either completely reverse it or, through some regular medication or something, can completely supress it?

Kind of scary. You know most people would want to “cure” their children - even very well meaning ones. It’s completely understandable given the current problems with our society.

However, if we can get through this and gay/straight kind of just blends in to the society the way race in America has (okay, it’s still got a LONG way to go, but it’s definitely a lot better than a century ago), it might be harmless to search for the cause of homosexuality. I just don’t know if we’re ready for that knowledge yet.

Back on the original subject about celebrities:
I think one of the main problems is with the whole question: “are you gay?”. The way our society thinks, the refusal to answer that question is generally taken as an affirmative. This is slightly reasonable, as no one really has any reason to fear being found out to be straight. Gay people, on the other hand, have legitimate reasons for wanting to avoid the question. Society does the same kind of thing where other sexual questions are involved. If someone is asked “did you have sex with this person?” and they say “none of your business”, most people’s psyche tends to take that as a “yes”. It’s just that it’s rare (or at least, we assume it’s rare) for people to refuse to answer a question if the truth would not cause them problems.

In light of all this, asking a celebrity (or anyone else) if they are gay is basically an accusation. It’s like saying: “You’re gay, aren’t you? You would answer unless you had something to hide.” A bit of a downer, you must admit. I can’t think of many personal questions that would be as accusatory. Marital status, plans for having children - they just to rank up there.

30

Ack, proofreading skills fading… fading… gone.

That should be:
Marital status, plans for having children - they just don’t rank up there.

31

I see asking if a person is gay is no bigger an issue than asking if he is Catholic.

I see it as no bigger an issue than asking someone if they are black.

I see it as no bigger an issue than asking someone what their nationality is.

Gay celebrites, with money in the bank, and nothing to lose should come out. Libarace lived PAST his dying day (through his will etc) denying he was gay. At that point the denial is just pathetic.

So to those like Rock Hudson, Jim Nabors, Richard Deacon, Paul Lynde, JM Bullock, Tom Cruise, Anthony Perkins, James Coco, Oliva Newton-John, Matt Lattanzi, Helen Reddy, Agnes Moorehead, Barbara Stanwyck, Ann B. Davis, Nancy Kulp.

You’re out…

32

The gay thing does interest people quite a bit. And it’s also that way in our personal lives. I have someone that I work with that I’ve wondered about for years. The guy seems to not have a sex life at all, and he’s a very nice guy. So I just can’t ask. And. it seems to be his style, that he would never tell anyway.

33

Hey, Rich, you could just ask him for a date, and then you could judge by his reaction whether he’s gay or not.

34

I agree that celebs should come out and be good role models, but can see where they’d be afraid to. I think a man’s career would be hurt more than a woman’s, especially a leading man. As far as non-celebs, just look at the recent gay beating deaths and figure out why someone in Bird Center, Alabama, might want to stay in the closet.

Mark, where did you get your Gay List? Do you KNOW all these people were/are gay, or is it just one of those “oh, everyone knows they’re gay” things, with no actual documentation to back things up? Barbara Stanwyck? I’m not saying she wasn’t gay, but what’s your source?

35

… not that there’s anything wrong with it.

Celebrities should come out if it’s safe for them to do so. Once a celeb has achieved a certain level of financial and professional and social security, there’s nothing to stop them. There’s no (or at least a very minimal) risk.

As obviously gay as Boy George was, he avoided the gay question early in his career because silence gives a plausible denial that the mass market can tolerate. If BG ‘came out’ with his first hit, he would have been branded a ‘gay artist’ and his records (remember what records are?) would have been relegated to the fringe ‘gay market.’ Same with Elton John.

Coming out too soon will hurt your career.

But now that BG and EJ are famous and out, they’re both still working, with Sir EJ doing very well. Anne Heche and Ellen Degeneres are also doing well for ‘out’ artists – but only after becoming professionally established while in the closet.

[Anne Heche disproves the myth that the general public won’t accept a known homosexual playing a romantic heterosexual lead.]

So, a celeb has to wait for the right time to come out. When the time is right, I think that they should come out, but it should still be their choice.

[Of course, like any segment of the population, there are some homosexual celebs who wouldn’t make good role models – not because of their orientation, but because they’re jerks.]

Getting back to the OP, is it OK to ask if they’re gay?

NO!

If being out will hurt a celeb’s career (or personal relationship), then it’s a danger question that no one has the right to – even the press! [Yes, the press has the right to ask, and the right to print what they find – that doesn’t mean asking about it is morally good.]

Being a known adulterer or drug-user will also hurt a rising star’s career. Should celebs be asked about these areas of their life? No.

But that doesn’t mean some jerk in the press or on a newsgroup won’t ask about it. The celeb would be justified in ignoring the question or outright lying about it. Serves the jerks right.

Peace.

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This thread is being moved to the Great Debates forum, at the request of the topic author, Revtim.

Nickrz
GQ Mod