Assaulted teacher "provoked attack" by stating she would defend herself

The BBQ Pit
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[QUOTE=mswas]
Total nonsense. ‘Gangster Types’ respect you more if you stand up for yourself.
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That’s old wives tail may have worked when Peter Brady stood up to the guy who was picking on Thindy forty years ago, but not today. You tell one that you’ll hit them if they hit you, that is seen as a challenge to hit you, and if they don’t, they would look weak in front of their peers, and they at that point really have no choice but to hit you to save face, even if they had no intention of doing so in the first place.

And maybe if the teacher is a badass no one would dare mess with, maybe, but this teacher obviosuly wasn’t a badass if a teenager beat her ass. What point is there in an adult of any type making that type of statement to a minor? Does anyone expect anyone who they hit to not hit them back, or otherwise defend themselves? So why state the obvious. Obviously this teacher thought she was a badass, and wasn’t, and learned a lesson.

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[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
But you can’t do that without injuring the poor little snowflake’s self-esteem!
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Actually, I’d imagine that more parents just don’t have the patience to deal with the kid, and give in. Or they just don’t give a shit.
(Yeah, I know you’re being sarcastic)

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[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
That’s old wives tail may have worked when Peter Brady stood up to the guy who was picking on Thindy forty years ago, but not today. You tell one that you’ll hit them if they hit you, that is seen as a challenge to hit you, and if they don’t, they would look weak in front of their peers, and they at that point really have no choice but to hit you to save face, even if they had no intention of doing so in the first place.

And maybe if the teacher is a badass no one would dare mess with, maybe, but this teacher obviosuly wasn’t a badass if a teenager beat her ass. What point is there in an adult of any type making that type of statement to a minor? Does anyone expect anyone who they hit to not hit them back, or otherwise defend themselves? So why state the obvious. Obviously this teacher thought she was a badass, and wasn’t, and learned a lesson.
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In the current environment where, at home and at school, kids think they hold all the cards, what’s obvious is that, yes, kids do automatically expect “anyone who they hit to not hit them back, or otherwise defend themselves.” They think they hold all the cards and behave accordingly; after all, TPTB will automatically take their side. I don’t believe in all the complaints about “cult(s) the child” and the perquisites that implies, but in this situation, I can sure see where that thinking has created a literal monster.

Do you really think the “point” was about the teacher thinking she was badass and not about playing the card she thought, in the moment, would resonate most with that unruly student? Sure she lost in this instance, but I know for a fact that, once things have escalated to the level where the teacher thought she needed to made that statement, “Back off or I’ll give you a time-out.” was much less likely to work.

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[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
Do you really think the “point” was about the teacher thinking she was badass and not about playing the card she thought, in the moment, would resonate most with that unruly student? Sure she lost in this instance, but I know for a fact that, once things have escalated to the level where the teacher thought she needed to made that statement, “Back off or I’ll give you a time-out.” was much less likely to work.
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It could very well that she was scared and thought she was about to be attacked and thought that was the only way to possibly stop the attack, sure. But it could be the teacher is a thug herself who wasn’t above fighting a problem student. I’m just saying a teacher who has experience with these students should know better- even today students attacking teachers is not exacty a daily event, and usually there is something more to it “the teacher told me to be quiet so I hit her”- usually there’s some provocation. There are tons of old frail women who teach in urban schools that have never been attacked, probably becasue they don’t issue challenges to unruly students.

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[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
It could very well that she was scared and thought she was about to be attacked and thought that was the only way to possibly stop the attack, sure. But it could be the teacher is a thug herself who wasn’t above fighting a problem student. I’m just saying a teacher who has experience with these students should know better- even today students attacking teachers is not exacty a daily event, and usually there is something more to it “the teacher told me to be quiet so I hit her”- usually there’s some provocation. There are tons of old frail women who teach in urban schools that have never been attacked, probably becasue they don’t issue challenges to unruly students.
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Read the article regarding this particular incident, in contrast to the parts of your post I’ve bolded.

In addition to the fact that nothing about the incident or subsequent reports (and I’ve searched) hints at Ms. Berry having a history of confrontation(s) with students, I have to wonder what you’re seeing that suggests that the word “thug” should be attached to the teacher in any way. Especially in light of how the incident was desribed in the initially-linked article, with quote and my highlighting below:

"The trouble began, Jolita Berry said, when she asked a girl in one of her art classes at Reginald F. Lewis High School to sit down.

**The student did not obey, coming closer to confront the teacher. “She said she’s gonna bang me,]/B]” Berry said. “I said, ‘Back up, you’re in my space. If you hit me, I’m gonna defend myself.’”

But Berry, who is 30 and started her job teaching art at the Northeast Baltimore school in December, did not defend herself.** The girl caught the teacher off guard** as other students cheered her on and screamed, “Hit her!”

"She just started beating on me relentlessly," Berry said, recalling the Friday morning incident that left her with a sore shoulder and a broken blood vessel in her eye."

Additionally, everything else reported as background in the article makes it clear that student violence against teachers in general and lack of effective responses by authorites in particular is the problem in this case. I’m sure she was scared, but had there been anything about Ms. Berry’s history to mitigate and offset those facts as regards this incident, I’m sure it would have been noted.

Where are you getting your take on what happened to Ms. Berry?

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Because everything in the article seems to be her side of the story, and I don’t think she’s going to admit to any culpability if there was any. I perosnally don’t believe anyone in that situation is going to utter the exact words “'Back up, you’re in my space. If you hit me, I’m gonna defend myself”, for starters.

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[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Because everything in the article seems to be her side of the story, and I don’t think she’s going to admit to any culpability if there was any. I perosnally don’t believe anyone in that situation is going to utter the exact words “'Back up, you’re in my space. If you hit me, I’m gonna defend myself”, for starters.
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Has any of your research on her turned up any other sources that indicate she’s a thug? Mine didn’t.

Also, does your personal experience tell you exactly what everybody will say and do in any given situation and why is that experience the only reliable source uon which to base characterizations of others, barring nothing in the factual record that backs that characterization up?

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[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
Has any of your research on her turned up any other sources that indicate she’s a thug? Mine didn’t.

Also, does your personal experience tell you exactly what everybody will say and do in any given situation and why is that experience the only reliable source uon which to base characterizations of others, barring nothing in the factual record that backs that characterization up?
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There hasn’t been any research at all on the teachers history to my knowledge- do you have any I’m unaware of? If not, lack of history does not default to good history.

And this isn’t even about school or teachers anything- who doesn’t know that if you have a confrontation with anyone, saying something to the effect of “bring it on bitch” is only go to make things worse?

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[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
There hasn’t been any research at all on the teachers history to my knowledge- do you have any I’m unaware of? If not, lack of history does not default to good history.
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You seem to be willfully misunderstanding what I have clearly written. The article which prompted the OP, as well as several others, is on the record. The research that I have conducted of what else is on the record turns up nothing negative regrading the teacher’s past. Don’t you think had there been some history of this teacher violently confronting students it would have turned up and been reported? Also, even if there is nothing on the record in this regard, woudn’t it make more sense to impute a good or neutral history rather than, as you do, assume a bad history and start calling a teacher a thug? Doing so only speaks to your prejudices, assumptions and willingness to ignore what’s actually on the record.

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
And this isn’t even about school or teachers anything- who doesn’t know that if you have a confrontation with anyone, saying something to the effect of “bring it on bitch” is only go to make things worse?
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How you get from “Back up, you’re in my space. If you hit me, I’m gonna defend myself.” to “bring it on bitch,”* is something readable only from inside your head, within your world. Perhaps your skills at interpretation is what gets you an ass-whipping out in the real world when none is necessary.

  • Just as you thought “Jolita Berry said, when she asked a girl in one of her art classes at Reginald F. Lewis High School to sit down. The student did not obey, coming closer to confront the teacher” was “the teacher told me to be quiet so I hit her.”
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Actually I said the teacher* could well be a thug*, may be Mother Teresa, I don’t know, you don’t know, so you have an opinion on what happened based on what is known, and I am on the fence. Obviously unless the girl is crazed she didn’t beat a teacher for telling her respectfully to sit down and be quiet, so there was probably some build up- what was the build-up, who instigated it? Telling that type of student what she did, assuming she said those exact words, is still tantamount to “bring it on bitch”- it is a challenge. If the student backed down at that point, she would have been embarrassed in front of her peers. Most realize that, this teacher perhaps did not, or perhaps did. Many people get into fights and say **bring it on mother fucker ** and then wish they hadn’t and puss out, I’m sure. If you are an adult and a student “gets in your space”, you still do not challenge them, unless you are looking for a fight, or are completely ignorant of the psychology of the situation.

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This morning’s google on Jolita Berry brought up this…note that the teacher is NOT Jolita Berry.

*A Baltimore City elementary school teacher was arrested Friday on drug charges, allegedly after a bag of marijuana fell out of her purse in front of students.

The incident allegedly occurred during an early morning class at George G. Kelson Elementary School in East Baltimore. The teacher allegedly dropped her purse and a bag of marijuana tumbled onto the floor, sources familiar with the investigation said. *

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Today’s update:

http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=2b006391-c60d-4777-ba2d-1a98f2e9ee99

BALTIMORE - An art teacher at Reginald F. Lewis High School, who was attacked by a student in her classroom April 4 and the incident was recorded on another student’s cell phone camera, has filed criminal charges against the student she says attacked her.

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[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Next time you’re in a squirelly mood, go slumming and drive down a street where some gangster types are playing ball in street, and give them a good honking when they don’t disperse fast enough. Then when they start talking shit to you, be sure you inform them how you fully intend on defending yourself should they do anything. Let me know how that turns out.
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:rolleyes:

I lived in a bad inner-city neighborhood for 11 years. I know full well how to deal with those situations without fighting, and it sure as hell isn’t by ducking and running every time someone confronts you. Sadly, that just encourages a wolf-pack mentality where they ALL run you down and have their way with you.

Spread your fear and false assumptions somewhere else.

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[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
Today’s update:

http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=2b006391-c60d-4777-ba2d-1a98f2e9ee99

BALTIMORE - An art teacher at Reginald F. Lewis High School, who was attacked by a student in her classroom April 4 and the incident was recorded on another student’s cell phone camera, has filed criminal charges against the student she says attacked her.
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Although in no way definitive, I’d just like to say this latest development suggests how much more unlikely it is, as has been suggested here, that the teacher has a history of fighting or getting into violent confrontations with students.

Certainly even a cursory investigation will be conducted, and although the validity of charges against the student should not depend on blaming the teacher-victim, Ms. Berry’s almost certain to have considered how it would look if such a history comes to light and is given weight with regard to the decision on whether to prosecute.

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I’m happy to read that charges are being pursued. This kid, and others who think that assaulting a teacher is acceptable need a new lesson.

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From today’s google search:

*An Examiner photographer, on assignment for a school-violence special report, told police a student assaulted her Thursday morning outside Reginald F. Lewis High School, the same school where art teacher Jolita Berry was viciously attacked by a student earlier this month.

Arianne Starnes, 24, said she was thrown to the ground after a student came out of a group of about 20 other students and accused her of taking his picture.*

And…

BALTIMORE (WJZ) ― More disturbing allegations arise at an already troubled Baltimore City high school.

*Mike Hellgren reports in an Eyewitness News Exclusive, following two high profile beatings, there are now reports of a sexual assault.

[Snip]

The special education student’s mother tells Eyewitness News, three male students assaulted her daughter leaving her bruised and scared.

“My daughter said they threw her on the floor and tried to take her clothes off of her but the couldn’t get them off cause she was fighting them off,” said the victim’s mother.

City schools confirm police responded to what they’re calling a fourth degree sex assault. *

http://wjz.com/local/reginald.f.lewis.2.708840.html

Holy shit!