I have no opinion, which is why I asked in the first place.
Ah, okay. Well, unions don’t typically get involved in management employment disputes as their membership typically isn’t comprised of those contracted employees. Unions are only obligated to advocate for those workers designated as members of the collective bargaining unit (CBU) (oftentimes regardless of their membership in the union). IMO it is (extremely, highly) unlikely that a contract employee in a management position is a part of the union’s CBU.
In this case, IMO the default assumption is that he is not a member of the union nor working under their aegis.
Thanks. Just one thing:
Only the head football coach and head men’s and women’s basketball coaches under contract at Chattanooga.
He’s an o-line coach, cultivating mass is just part of the job.
The bigger problem (and one I discussed with my coworker who’s an ex-cfb player and current hs coach this morning) is that a significant part of his job is going into the living rooms of (mostly black) teenagers, many from Georgia, and convincing moms and dads that the coaching staff will take care of their kids for their college career. I count a 93 man roster on their site. 28 (30%) are from GA. About 1/3 are white (though that was me judging from headshots, not self identification). If this statement damages those living room conversations (and negative recruiting at other schools will surely bring it up), then it’s a factor in how he does his job. I don’t know if that’s outweighed by the rest of the first amendment concerns, but if I’m the head coach, I don’t want him on my staff.
So you DID have reason for thinking the union should be involved?
Look, why don’t you just say what you think here? Do you think the union should be involved? Why?
No, just pointing out a tiny flaw in your opinion. I honestly had no clue if they should be or not.
Ordinarily I’d be on the side of the coach, but he knew he’d stepped over the line when he deleted the post 30 minutes after he put it up. He got immediate blow-back from former players. This tweet will interfere with Tennessee recruitment efforts. That alone is reason to fire his ass. The university just needs to take the position that he was fired for being an asshole, not for “unpopular opinions.”
I agree with most of your post, but I think the incentives this reasoning provides are really bad. We should want people to realize they made a mistake and take it down, and it’s unfortunate that if he had left his assholish post up, he’d potentially be in a stronger position.
Because it is the union’s mission to protect the jobs of their members.
When I was a member of the school board, there was a teacher that even the president of the union agreed had to be fired. Nonetheless, the union was obliged to defend the teacher. So the union president came to the school board proposing to take the $25K the board would spend to fight the court case and the $25K that it would cost the union and offer the teacher $50 to resign. The board accepted the proposal and the teacher accepted the buyout.
If I were running the university, I would argue that the guy had just demonstrated abject stupidity, buying into Trumpism and I wouldn’t want his around. It would also hurt recruiting.
Yes, and I said so in a previous post. It isn’t clear that Mr. Malone was a member of the union or that he worked under their CBA. If he was, I agree that they should prolly be advocating for him.
“UTC-UCW is getting organized again …” (cite)–per the page you cited, the United Campus Workers has more than 2200 members on 20 campuses across Tennessee, but UT-Chattanooga all by itself has more than 2200 faculty and staff. Yeah, they’ve got a union, but all signs are it’s pretty small with relatively few members, and the issues they’re pushing (racial and economic justice, anti-privatization, opposition to state government "attacks [on] academic freedom and progressive programming, etc.) are not exactly issues that are going to resonate in the athletic department. I’ll bet good money the coach isn’t a member, and if I recall correctly, Tennessee public employees are legally barred from collective bargaining in that right-to-work state, so the union has no legal obligation to act on his behalf, and are unlikely to support his political position.
What reason do you have to believe that would happen? Can you give me a list of people that have quit their jobs entirely out of shame? I honestly cannot think of a person who has said “I’m so ashamed, I must quit my job.” Usually they are given a choice between getting fired or quitting, no shame involved at all.
This was clearly a stupid tweet. You could easily make an argument that it was 1) anti- democratic (since the election seemed fair), 2) mocked weight issues and did not at all represent the views of the football program. There is not enough information here to know if the background of Ms. Abrams was a third issue. But presumably his views have been stated elsewhere. I wonder how popular these views are in GA.
Politicians are public figures and there is a lot of legal space to mock them. Certainly I think the pendulum has swung too far and saying despicable things about good people has become too commonplace, to the public detriment. There should be action taken because of this single tweet if he made it or admits to doing so. A further action would depend on other factors including previous expressions and other evidence along these lines. Worse has probably been said here about public figures.
Just google “resigned in disgrace”. In this case the guy actually did just that. It was only after the University (stupidly) sent out a press release saying he was fired that he even had a case to go to court on. But let’s assume he went to work the next day. Would his relationship with his players (many black) and co-workers have made his work place even remotely tolerable? Same for the “Fuck Cheer” girl. What sort of reception would she have gotten from her teammates and how long before she decided to switch her interests to the chess club? But even assuming they bull-headedly stuck with it, is that too high a price to pay for keeping the government from punishing you for exercising your right to free speech? Like I said in the other thread, “Sometimes you have to let the Nazis march in Skokie.”
No, not my job. You said people resign out of shame of their own accord. I don’t think it’s asking too much for you to pony up some examples.
Any example I give, you will say they would have gotten fired if they hadn’t quit.
No, I just think you are wrong. People don’t quit their jobs out of shame, they quit because they are under pressure, sometimes even by their usual allies.
And sometimes that pressure is having to show your face to people that are ashamed of you. I know we just went through four years of a gross exception to the rule, but shame is still a great motivator in most human beings.
I wish it was but it’s not. I’m not sure it’s ever been. And it didn’t start 4 years ago. There were plenty of people 50 years ago that were happy to kill blacks for no reason other than they were black. Many of these were in the supposedly religious south. I don’t recall any shame there. Nixon did not resign in shame. None of the ministers that have had affairs or stealing funds resigned in disgrace. I don’t recall any Catholic priests resigning in shame over pedophiles or the unwed mothers in Ireland. People seem to be able to withstand an enormous amount of shame with no problem.
It motivates the heck out of me sometimes. I’ve never quit a job because of it but it can motivate.