I’m a man of my word. I tried email, but the door was locked…
Thanks. I’m glad that someone has a sense of what is truly important… 
With a high heart, because there was a unicorn in his garden, Aeschines went upstairs and roused his wife again. “The unicorn ate a begonia,” he said.
–with apologies to James Thurber
Remember what I said about a poor manner? Contumelious behavior.
I’ve called you numerous times on your “Randi Prize” BS argument, but you’re a CD with a serious skip, it seems.
Bleh.
Wrong. It is not his money and he does not control where it goes if the conditions are met and the test takes place. Read the challenge.
Wrong. If you think you don’t have the time to do what you claim to do every day in a simple test that could net you a cool mil, your fundraising department is missing some incredibly easy cash. Read the challenge.
Wrong. Randi is not involved in the actual test. Does he know how people can cheat? Of course, and that’s why he suspects others are doing it to fool people or out of ignorance. Read the challenge.
Wrong. What he is proposing is extremely good science. He is accusing the challengers of the opposite, and is giving them a chance to prove their claims under valid, difficult-to-deceive conditions. All they have to do is what they say they can do, no more, no less. Both parties have to agree on all conditions before the test takes place. How much fairer could a test be? Read the challenge.
Right. Peter Popoff is one.
Why? because they can’t perform as promised? They are afraid to be uncovered? They can’t prove what they claim? Could it be {horrors} that their position has no validity? Is that even one possibility? Read the challenge.
Wrong. In any discussion of the paranormal, and Astral Projection falls squarely in that category, all the doubters ask for is PROOF. Randi offers a simple way to provide that proof with a great reward at the end. Step right up, do your thing, do not pass GO, but collect a million dollars! Read the challenge.
Hey, cat. Humor’s one thing, but this’ gonna be interpreted as harassment. You trying to get this thread closed? How about throwing in a smilie or something?
No, no… He was only joking!!! Go back!
(to be continued…)
(fade)
Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
with thanks to the originator of this technique, name lost temporarily.
OK.
OK…
Oh Yeah?
I think I’ve had quite enough of the ‘James Randi is my hero’ crap.
I also read his website and some of his ‘news reports.’ Rubbish and Mind Control.
I choose to disbelieve in his sincerity.
Piece
But it has been proven in near death experiences. Guess you missed it, read the NDE researchers material. Lots of evidence that life continues after death. There are called veridical NDEs. They have been verified. Scientific studies and all have agreed with them.
I will admit this material is only for those who seek truth.
Everyone will understand it at some point in their life.
Love
The point is that Randi doesn’t make the decision about who gets the money. He can’t reneg if he wants to.
Would you care to elaborate about what part of the JREF site is “rubbish and mind control?”
Yeah. From the challenge:
FYI, originally, the prize money was 10,000 cash, James Randi's cash. Later over a million in pledges were collected at $1000 a pop. I believe some of this was converted to cash just to make the prize more certain. You can hardly get more solid and sure than this offer.
Mind Control? 
Perhaps you do. But if I truly, truly believed I had a psychic power and I could prove it as much as I can prove death and taxes are inevitable, I would be first in line to get a chance at that loot. If I could teleport as easily as some people have claimed they can with AP, I would fly my very own psychic self to the JREF doorstep in a minute so I wouldn’t miss all that incredibly easy money.
Lekatt,
You never cease to amaze me, have you read NOTHING I have written?
Near-death-Experiences, do exist, but they are caused by a DRUG. Its called DMT, can you say that with me? D…M…T. Good.
This drug is illegal, but it is in each and every one of us. It causes INTENSE hallucinations…hallucinations that completely override reality. You know what I’m talking about.
Why is that so hard to accept? Oh, wait, because it means that your excuse for believing in God is flawed.
Yes, the truth hurts.
Do you always selectively ignore people who show that you’re wrong? You listed links to supposed scientific studies proving NDEs. However none of your links prove NDEs. In fact, of all your links, only two are scientific studies at all. One of them is actually a news story that talks about a study, and not the study itself. It also states that the testing procedure for the study has not yet been finalized. The other never once claims that NDEs are real.
Have you even bothered to read your own cites?
I have BBQ Pit-worthy things to say about Musicat and others who keep harping on the Randi Challenge, but I will hold my tongue as this is GD. You are coming close–no, let’s just say it–dissembling about the content of this challenge in a manner that can only be described as bald-faced.
First I would like to point something out that is of key importance:
The relationship between Randi the man and JREF is completely unclear. Your claims that Randi himself will be doing this or not doing that is based on nothing whatsoever. Rather, wording in the challenge itself contradicts your claim that JREF is doing it, not Randi.
Let’s take a look at some quotes therefrom:
All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, and no judging process is required.
This is supposed to be scientific? Any type of measurement or analysis could be considered a “judging process.” And if there is to be a judge, his/her merely peering at the “self-evident” results could be considered a “process.” Any real skeptic worth his/her salt will have qualms with the above quote.
Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the testing may be used freely by JREF in any way that Mr. Randi may choose.
This would seem to indicate that the will of JREF and that of Randi the individual are one and the same.
This offer is made by James Randi through the JREF, and not on behalf of any other person, agency or organization, though others may become involved in the examination of claims, others may add their reward money to the total in certain circumstances, and the implementation and management of the challenge will be carried out by James Randi via the James Randi Educational Foundation.
You are free to interpret this poor writing however you choose. But if you wish to claim that JREF is some independent and objective organization not directly controlled by Randi the individual, I should think this requires additional proof.
Upon the death of James Randi, the administration of the prize will pass into other hands, and it is intended that it continue in force.
In fairness, this is a quote that hints at independence and objectivity. If this is sufficient proof of the matter for you, however, you are no skeptic.
In sum, the challenge is written in extremely poor legalese, and its terms represent either an ignorance or flouting of the scientific method (quote 1 above). If this is all the skeptics have, I suggest it is time to reload.
You got a cite for that, pard? I have seen articles regarding the similarity of ketamine-induced experiences and NDEs, but not ones for DMT. Is this your own private hypothesis at this point?
Oh give it a break. They’re not lying about the JREF, so don’t suggest that they are. By all means, go to the Pit, but I don’ t think it would be pleasant.
About your points:
The idea is that the entrant should designs the experiment in such a way that the result should be inarguable. That is, Bob claims to be able to levitate objects, they agree that if two out of five ping pong balls spontaneously rises up, the experiment is proven. Bob does this, two or more ping pong balls fly up, he wins, no judging required.
No, it merely says that this particular aspect of JREF’s operations is supervised by Randi. Most of Microsoft’s big decisions might be made by Bill Gates, but that doesn’t mean that Bill Gates and Microsoft are interchangable, or that Microsoft does not exist as an entity.
[
As others have mentioned, this thing began as a personal challenge by Randi - “show me supernatural powers, I’ll give you $10,000”. More people donated money and together they used an organisation, JREF, to administer the challenge. That’s what this says - James Randi has kicked in the money, and others have added to it, James Randi manages the JREF.
The rules are written down and challengers sign a contract agreeing to these rules. Is there any evidence that Randi, or the JREF, is moving the goalposts?
How does point one show that Randi / the JREF doesn’t understand scientific methodology? Point one aims to remove any possible human factor, any possible doubt, any possible faulty interpretation by blinkered old-fashioned scientists. Point one is the essence of the scientific method.
Aeschines, how did I “hijack” this thread?!? The topic is the supposed reality of astral projection-just look at the frickin’ title! As far as James Randi’s offer being any good, you shouldn’t comment until you have evidence that someone passed the test and Randi refused to pay the money. Until then, keep your Pit-worthy comments out of this thread, o.k.?
About those links that lakatt provides, over and over and over and over and over again-most of the time they are off topic(an aside to lakatt-dreaming about a near death experience doesn’t mean you actually had one, anymore than dreaming about flying makes you Hawkman), and the few times they are on topic, they are absolutely and unquestionably useless scientifically.
You know what? It might help if you could decide which side of the picket fence you are currently straddling to come down on. When some small event is misinterpreted scientifically, you claim that science supports you, but when mountains of real science goes against you, you claim that science is not the best way to look at the situation. The scientific process isn’t some sort of game where you get to look for loopholes and obscure bylaws that allow you to “win” some sort of glamor, and most of us who use and respect science really resent how some of you pay only hypocritical lip service to its cause.
You are not quoting me but someone else–I have not used the word “hijack” in this thread.
Nor do I think I have said anything pitworthy.
I have never said that Randi would not pay the money if someone passed the test. I have merely said that claims that JREF is some independent, fair, and objective organization
are completely UNSUPPORTED
by the self-labeled skeptics who speak of the challenge in glowing terms, who continually and disingenuously claim that if psychic powers existed the prize would have been claimed by now. I have never seen any information posted whatsoever about the makeup of this body, its history, or anything.
Where’s the real skepticism, people?
For a tentative cite, see first post on 2nd page of this thread.
Oops, make that 3rd page.
Basically, this thread boils down to this:
rationallist: “When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.”
lekatt, et al: “When you hear hoofbeats, think unicorns, not horses.”
What convinces me that DMT causes near-death-experiences is the similarity of the symptoms.
http://www.newchurch.org/faq/indepthfaq/swedenbNearDeathExperience.html
Near-death-experiences:
“You begin to hear an uncomfortable buzzing or ringing in your ears, and at the same time you feel yourself moving rapidly through a long tunnel. After this, you suddenly find yourself outside of your physical body but still in the immediate environment, and you see your own body from a distance, as though you are a spectator. You watch the resuscitation attempt by the doctors from this unusual vantage point, and feel a sense of emotional upheaval.”
Then, quoting Erowid (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_effects.shtml)
Effects of DMT:
POSITIVE
short duration
immersive experiences
intense open eye visuals and kaleidescopic patterning
powerful “rushing” of sensation
radical perspective shifting
profound life-changing spiritual experiences
NEUTRAL
change in perception of time
auditory hallucination (buzzing)
colorshifting (for example red green and gold coloring to the whole world)
NEGATIVE
overly-intense experiences
hard on the lungs to smoke
slight stomach discomfort
difficulty integrating experiences
overwhelming fear
fast onset and intensity can lead to problems if not prepared (dropped pipe, knocking things over, falling)