[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
I didn’t think I would have to add “No snarky comments”-People, this thread is for gathering information from astrologers and those who believe in astrology. Take the cheap shots elsewhere.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you! 
That’s what I’m trying to do! 
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
I must have misunderstood the board’s motto. My mistake.
[/QUOTE]
Sigh. Look at it this way.
In order to fight ignorance, you may well want to explain what is wrong with astrology
To explain what is wrong with astrology, you must first understand it. Only someone who actually understands it is qualified to criticise it. If you don’t know what astrologers claim, then you are not in a position to criticise.
One thing I find annoying is when so-called critical thinkers just simply make up opinions for people, then sneer at their own strawmen.
[QUOTE=glee]
Thanks for stepping in.
I have some follow-ups:
if astrology can’t make predictions, what specific questions can it answer?
what sort of questions would you ask in a reading?
going back to the chess event; can astrology tell me whether the timing is auspicious for me?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think astrology itself answers any questions. I think it’s a tool, a template, a pattern, a set of pictures for finding answers in yourself.
Skipping to question 3, traditional astrology will purport to give you an auspicious time, but I don’t know why it would be correct. I suppose if you believed it, it could be self-fulfilling prophecy, but that’s about it.
One of the reasons this thread interests me, is because I’m not really sure what sort of questions I would ask and I thought the exploration might enlighten me. I have only ever done these kinds of interpretations for myself, using my own chart and that of family and friends. When I think about what I’m looking at, I don’t articulate specific questions for myself to answer, so much as I come to some insight, recognize some truth, or make some connections that I hadn’t done before. These come through rumination or an intuitive “aha!” when the light dawns.
The kinds of questions that relate to that sort of reading would be Does that remind you of anything in your life? Does that resonate with your experience? Do you recognize this dynamic in your relationships?
Alternatively, I know basic facts about myself - I have four siblings, my parents are alive, I am married and have one child - so I don’t need to ask myself those kinds of things. But I don’t believe astrology can reveal can that kind of information, so I might ask for it, or qualify an interpretation of, for example, the seventh house by saying “These symbols relate to marriage or other intimate relationships” and let the querent fill in the blanks of how they might apply.
I have another question or two, if you don’t mind my horning in. A good friend of mine considers himself a skilled wooer of women. Yeah, I know, :rolleyes: . It’s hard to argue with his track record, though. He says his knowledge of astrology helps him a lot. Partly, he says, because belief in astrology is much higher among women than among men. Is that true?
Another assertion was that (I can’t remember which sign) is ruled by the feet. If a woman of that sign would let him take off her shoes and massage her feet, he said, she would surely go to bed with him. Does that have any grounding in astrology as you know it? Was he reading too much into his books?
As a matter of respect for my friend, I didn’t cry bullshit, any more than I would diss the pope when talking with my Catholic friends. For all I know, the astrologers and the priests are right. Even if they aren’t, I don’t want to lose a friend over it.
[QUOTE=Peter Morris]
One thing I find annoying is when so-called critical thinkers just simply make up opinions for people, then sneer at their own strawmen.
[/QUOTE]
Well said… and I join you in sneering at those so-called critical thinkers, whoever and wherever they may be!
[QUOTE=AskNott]
belief in astrology is much higher among women than among men. Is that true?
[/quote]
I don’t know. Maybe somebody else does. I’m not in this thread because I’m any kind of expert.
Each sign is said to rule or influence a different part of the body. (I would say “symbolize” or “is associated with”.) This was usually meant to be a guide to medical treatment, but I have seen books that recommend it for seduction as well. Personally, I’m a Capricorn, and if anybody tried that system with me, they’d get nowhere. A nice foot massage, now, that might go over well with many women, not necessarily just a Pisces. I’d certainly prefer it over a nice chiropractic adjustment.
Scroll down on the above link for a lovely and well-known medieval illumination of the subject. I’m in it for the art, I tells ya.
[QUOTE=SparrowHawk]
I don’t think astrology itself answers any questions. I think it’s a tool, a template, a pattern, a set of pictures for finding answers in yourself.
Skipping to question 3, traditional astrology will purport to give you an auspicious time, but I don’t know why it would be correct. I suppose if you believed it, it could be self-fulfilling prophecy, but that’s about it.
One of the reasons this thread interests me, is because I’m not really sure what sort of questions I would ask and I thought the exploration might enlighten me. I have only ever done these kinds of interpretations for myself, using my own chart and that of family and friends. When I think about what I’m looking at, I don’t articulate specific questions for myself to answer, so much as I come to some insight, recognize some truth, or make some connections that I hadn’t done before. These come through rumination or an intuitive “aha!” when the light dawns.
The kinds of questions that relate to that sort of reading would be Does that remind you of anything in your life? Does that resonate with your experience? Do you recognize this dynamic in your relationships?
Alternatively, I know basic facts about myself - I have four siblings, my parents are alive, I am married and have one child - so I don’t need to ask myself those kinds of things. But I don’t believe astrology can reveal can that kind of information, so I might ask for it, or qualify an interpretation of, for example, the seventh house by saying “These symbols relate to marriage or other intimate relationships” and let the querent fill in the blanks of how they might apply.
[/QUOTE]
This is helpful and thanks for posting it.
Would you be prepared to do a reading of me?
(We can discuss details, but mainly I’d like to see what information you need and what a reading looks like.)
I’ve put off answering this because I’m kind of uncomfortable about it. I’ve never done this and I feel unqualified to be any sort of banner-bearer or exemplar of How It’s Done.
What I do for myself, and what I would do for you, would be to get a computer generated chart from astro.com and go through the signs and aspects, looking up what different sources have to say about what they mean and distilling it into some kind of statements that seem representative to me. It’s time-consuming, so I wouldn’t necessarily be very quick about it, either, but I’d try to do a little each day. Is that agreeable to you?
OK, tell me this:
What is the underlying theory of astrology? A ‘theory’ is similar to the atomic theory underlying chemistry.
I’m not interested in the day-to-day life of an astrologer. I am only interested in the basic theory underlying the practice.
[QUOTE=SparrowHawk]
I’ve put off answering this because I’m kind of uncomfortable about it. I’ve never done this and I feel unqualified to be any sort of banner-bearer or exemplar of How It’s Done.
What I do for myself, and what I would do for you, would be to get a computer generated chart from astro.com and go through the signs and aspects, looking up what different sources have to say about what they mean and distilling it into some kind of statements that seem representative to me. It’s time-consuming, so I wouldn’t necessarily be very quick about it, either, but I’d try to do a little each day. Is that agreeable to you?
[/QUOTE]
I also use astro and a personal program to get the chart (much faster than doing it by hand). As for the breakdown/information I use a couple of different books. I’ve done 2 charts for a couple of dopers and working on a 3rd. I wonder if they would be interested in comparing our chart information if you are doing one for the same
person(s)?
Speaking of which, I need to get finished with this last one…
[QUOTE=Peter Morris]
If you don’t know what astrologers claim, then you are not in a position to criticise.
[/QUOTE]
I am fully aware of what they claim. Those claims have not held up to scrutiny. End of story.
Oh you are, are you? :dubious:
In that case, perhaps you would care to answer Derleth’s perfectly rreasonable question, “what is the underlying theory of astrology.”
Please do tell us what the theory actually is. This should present you with no problem at all, since you know what astrologers claim.
Don’t guess, be factual, if you make a statement, be prepared to back it up with cites. If you claim, for instance, that astrologers believe the moon is made of cheese, be prepared to name some actual astrologers who hold that belief. Show evidence of astrologers actually making that claim.
And remember, you’re not being asked to endorse astrology. You are being asked to make factual statements about what astrologers actually believe. Listing what their beliefs are does not imply agreement with them.
Yes, but what does this all have to do with Randi?
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
I am fully aware of what they claim. Those claims have not held up to scrutiny. End of story.
[/QUOTE]
But the question of scrutiny isn’t in…well, question here. The question is simply the first sentence. What do they claim? Where we take that information is irrelevant. It would be super neat if you’d let each person draw their own conclusions based on the information they gather, particularly after two different Moderators indicated as much.
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
I am fully aware of what they claim. Those claims have not held up to scrutiny. End of story.
[/QUOTE]
I am not fully aware of what they claim. Nor have I ever had a reading.
I would like to do so here.
As I said at the start.
Your contributions here have not helped me.
End of story.
(If you would like to take your thoughts out of here and to the Pit, that would be helpful.)
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
Yes, but what does this all have to do with Randi?
[/QUOTE]
Stop that! :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=SparrowHawk]
I’ve put off answering this because I’m kind of uncomfortable about it. I’ve never done this and I feel unqualified to be any sort of banner-bearer or exemplar of How It’s Done.
What I do for myself, and what I would do for you, would be to get a computer generated chart from astro.com and go through the signs and aspects, looking up what different sources have to say about what they mean and distilling it into some kind of statements that seem representative to me. It’s time-consuming, so I wouldn’t necessarily be very quick about it, either, but I’d try to do a little each day. Is that agreeable to you?
[/QUOTE]
That sounds good to me.
Just to clarify my position:
I know that some people dismiss astrology (despite my clear statements, they even dive in here :rolleyes: ), but this is my chance to learn what astrologers think and do.
I live in a small rural town, so there’s no astrologers here to ask.
I would be happy to take things a step at a time and I appreciate you spending the time to do it. 
Let’s fight ignorance together!
[QUOTE=Pixilated]
I also use astro and a personal program to get the chart (much faster than doing it by hand). As for the breakdown/information I use a couple of different books. I’ve done 2 charts for a couple of dopers and working on a 3rd. I wonder if they would be interested in comparing our chart information if you are doing one for the same
person(s)?
Speaking of which, I need to get finished with this last one…
[/QUOTE]
When you get time, I would be pleased to get a reading from you. It would be interesting to compare it to any others I get here.
P.S. There will of course be no snarky remarks from me!
[QUOTE=Derleth]
OK, tell me this:
What is the underlying theory of astrology? A ‘theory’ is similar to the atomic theory underlying chemistry.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, so that’s what a theory is! Who knew? There is no theory in the scientific sense because, as you must know, astrology is not a science.
Astrology was developed when human understanding of the cosmos and our place in it was inherently religious. The first observations of the heavens were a mixture of charting the location and movement of heavenly bodies along with an attempt to relate that to natural events and the human condition. Like the rest of what was beyond understanding, much less control, the movement of stars, planets and luminaries was thought to be directly controlled by certain gods. A correct interpretation of celestial activity was believed to give an indication of the activity of the associated deities. Correlating cosmic events with terrestrial events, the observers gradually built up centuries of associations and interpretations.
Plus, if you needed some confirmation, you could always check out an entrail or two.
It was the 17th century before astronomy began the slow process of disentangling itself from its disreputable conjoined twin. Nonetheless, astrology is a sticky sort of thing. It popularly persists because we want explanations, we want meaning, we want everything to fit together and make sense, to know we have our rightful place in the cosmos. Because of its fluid, interpretive nature, astrology can shoehorn just about anything into place, which is a very satisfying thing. 
Current understandings vary widely, from those who insist that there is some scientific basis [“The Wave Structure of Matter allows the planets to affect us.” “Planetary motion orchestrates solar activity and geomagnetism, which imprints the neural network.”] to a generalized kind of all-is-one philosophy (religious connotations optional) [“There exists an ordering principle which influences events and situations and affects the inner constitution.” “The patterns found in the vastness of the universe are a larger exposition of the same patterns within the individual.” “It is the window of divinity available to mankind.”] to my personal favorite: “The movements of the planets have metaphorical value as symbols of the mind.” aka, it’s all made up.
I think any value lies in the fact that the system was made by human minds for human minds. It is one way among many to a better understanding of oneself and one’s relation to the world. I’m an artist and I naturally think in (and enjoy) pictures, symbols and metaphors. Mileage varies.
[QUOTE=glee]
That sounds good to me.
Just to clarify my position:
I know that some people dismiss astrology (despite my clear statements, they even dive in here :rolleyes: ), but this is my chance to learn what astrologers think and do.
I live in a small rural town, so there’s no astrologers here to ask.
I would be happy to take things a step at a time and I appreciate you spending the time to do it.
Let’s fight ignorance together!
[/QUOTE]
Thank you, glee. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Get your information to me and we can start. I have email turned off, but you can PM me.