I guess don’t start none, won’t be none counts.
Did they kill remotely as high a percentage?
Perhaps since only two people were killed in Israel and six in a NW corner of the US…
The point is that no serious negotiator would allow the rockets to be an issue. If the rockets are an issue then the process can be halted at any time by one fruitcake with a rocket.
Crane
Since 2001, rockets from Gaza have killed 28 Israelis.
Still a small number – and we may be thankful for it – but it is naive to limit yourself to only one impulse of an ongoing problem.
What can be done is, basically, the reason behind the HAMAS aggression via the usage of rockets against Israel lays in the embargo imposed on Gaza both by Egypt and Israel. Now this part is ironic, the reason behind the embargo is the ousting of the Fatah government in Gaza by the terrorist organisation HAMAS. HAMAS heavily militarised the strip and began having cross border raids to Israel as well as bombing it. Now it’s fighting for the embargo to be lifted, which would never be placed on the first place if it didn’t start governing the region.
Here’s our lesson: HAMAS leaves the strip (optional: gets disbanded) and Fatah governs Gaza again, demilitarises it and then Egypt and Israel lift embargoes. Then Palestinian-Israeli Peace Mission gets one more step closer to the end although I don’t think that these two states will never be able to reach an agreement on The Right of Return because Israelis will never allow that due to the fact that it would significantly increase the Arab population in Israel and Jerusalem as Israel will use all of its power to keep Jerusalem theirs…
Why would Hamas agree to leave the Strip, though?
Yeah, and what about the Arab-Israeli war in 1968? And that Israeli terorrism back in the 40s? And we mustn’t forget the Crusades!
This laaaaand is miiiine, God gave this land to meeeee- urk!
This is a little bit fallacious, as the claim was the “Rockets” have caused fewer deaths than Japanese fire-balloons, and that’s only true for the immediate last few weeks.
Extending something farther than the past few weeks is not the same as extending it by millennia.
That said, I do hope I live long enough (and Israel does too!) for it to have existed longer than the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem.
Meanwhile, stay away from the Horns of Hattin.
Knowledgable,
The beginning of such a process was the recent formation of a unity government with scheduled elections.
Israel ran from that opportunity, but it may yet happen.
Crane
Since 2001 the rockets have probably caused fewer deaths than non-combatant IDF friendly fire.
Crane
By the way, here is an article that reports on just how hilarious and pathetic the Palestinians’ Hebrew is:
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/music/181478/hamas-anthem-israel?all=1#undefined
When the song was first released, there was much of it that Israelis couldn’t understand. Partly, this is because the Gazans doing the singing can’t pronounce all the letters in the Hebrew alphabet. So a crucial word like piguim (the Hebrew word for “terror attacks”) comes out as biguim—a nonsense word that doesn’t mean anything at all in Hebrew. Imagine a song in English that calls dozens of times to mount horrific “terror attacks,” but in each case uses the expression “terror aggacks” instead, and you get the idea. The effect is a bit like the priest in The Princess Bride who keeps trying to get his audience to understand the sanctity of “mawwiage.”
As if this weren’t enough, many of the Hebrew phrases used in the song are ornate to the point of being incomprehensible to young Israelis. I asked one of the soldiers I talked to for examples, and he immediately began rattling off verses from the song by heart to make his point: “Avad alav hakelah venilach [‘Its time is past, it is polluted’],” he said to me. Where did they get those words? Venilach? What kind of a word is that? I mean it’s Hebrew and everything. But no one talks like that. It’s like they were sitting there and looking up words on Google Translate.”
Then they should probably stop launching those rockets.
[QUOTE=Crane]
the fact is that everything is negotiable.
[/QUOTE]
It appears that Hamas and the Palestinians believe that everything that the Israeilis want is negotiable, and nothing of what they want is negotiable.
‘We will fire rockets at you, which you are obliged to ignore because it doesn’t kill all that many of your people. What will you give us in return?’
That’s not negotiation.
Regards,
Shodan
And - the statement is propaganda, not part of a negotiation.
Crane
I am sorry but firstly the war you are talking about is the war of 1967, which were waged against Israel by 3 of her neighbours (indirectly though). What happened is basically, PLO guerrillas, Egyptian Army, Jordanian Army (in Jordanian occupied West Bank) and Hezbollah were continuously clashing in IDF in border regions (these were minor clashes) and this led up to Egypt disbanding UN forces in the border and closing the Straits of Tiran (which would be considered an act of war according to the last armistice). Then sJordan, Egypt and Lebanon signed Mutual Defence Pacts and started mobilising troops to their borders with Israel. Considering all these Israel’s widened cabinet decided to make a pre-emptive move and bombed all targets starting the war, which got Arab states by surprise. (Note: If Soviets didn’t falsely-inform Egyptians that Israeli troops were being amassed in Syrian border the conflict wouldn’t have escalated so rapidly.)
Also the “Israeli terrorism” you are talking about was nothing else than self-defence. From early 40’s Jews all across Europe started immigrating to Palestine, which was under British rule and where Jews were taken care of by the British government. After 1945 more and more Jews came to the region as Poles started showing aggression against Jews. In 1947 after long talks with especially the American Government and British Government the World Zionsts Organisation, assisted by the UN on the partitioning of the land between Jews and Palestinian Arabs. In 1948 after final agreements (not completely agreed by Arabs but left with no choice) the UN made a resolution voted upon many members, which passed (only Arabs states and Cuba declined) and the Arabs boycotted this election. Thus the Palestinians didn’t get the land they could’ve and they have been fighting since that day till now, seems stupid right? After this, Arabs states vowed to destroy Israel and started the 1948 Israeli-Arab war, which impacted the relations and have been straining them even today… That isn’t Israeli terrorism now that you read this. It is Arab arrogance.
Dear Crane,
The unity government was founded because HAMAS, which was left with one wing broken (the military wing was severely strained), had no choice other than this. They were very unpopular since it is an offspring of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is a terrorist organisation (in Egypt), so Egypt wants to destroy them, Israel wants to destroy them, thus they had no change but the join the legitimate representative of the Palestian people, Fatah. Israel condemned this because having good relations with Fatah for the recent years, and having fierce wars with HAMAS in recent years made a solid, distinguishable line between them. Then these two wants to reconcile and merge? Now, what would you do? They will be assimilated and the black (HAMAS) will ruin the white (Fatah). The terrorist will be a part of the legitimate representative! Of course they don’t want this to happen. They only want HAMAS to go, and demilitarise the region, not have them (HAMAS) in another government and keep the region militarised…
This land is miiiiine, God gaaave this land to meeee-urk!
Seriously this is the sort of tendentious stuff that springs up anytime (generic) you try to talk about Arab-Israeli relations. “They are completely responsible for the evil, we are purely and completely good!”
Unimpressive.
It’s certainly quite impressive that Hezbollah was fighting Israel almost 20 years before it came into existence.
The Unity Government is functioning. It is the Unity Government that represents Gaza in Cairo.
The Unity Government recognizes Israel’s right to exist, so that argument is moot.
Obama may possess the political will for the US to abstain when this issue next comes before the Security Council.
Crane