Malthus,
So, how does that fit into the context of a Homeland.
Crane
They are an ethno-religious community.
Well, your knowledge of the history of international relations is about on par with that of Arab-Israeli history and the 1967 war.
The US was already in an undeclared naval war with Germany in the Atlantic in the summer of 1941; US destroyers were escorting British merchant convoys in the North Atlantic with orders to attack any German U-boats or other forces encountered on sight. Far from not seeing that war with Japan was coming, the US and Japan had been spoiling for a fight for years, both sides saw it coming and neither side was willing to back down. Japan’s occupation of Vichy French Indochina in an attempt to cut off China from US aid in 1940 prompted the freezing of Japanese assets in the US and a series of embargoes, starting with scrap metal and finally on oil. The US oil embargo essentially threw the gauntlet down; over 80% of Japan’s oil was imported from the US and the embargo was a ticking time bomb. In the very near future Japan’s economy was going to come to a crashing halt unless it did one of two things: concede diplomatic defeat to the US and withdrawal from China, or seize a new source of oil (the Dutch East Indies) by force and go to war with the US. No nation was going to pick the option of the humiliation of having its foreign policy dictated by another country, much less the ultranationalists in charge of Imperial Japan. The US knew the war was coming, all of those aircraft carriers under construction as a result of the Two Ocean Navy Act of July 19, 1940 weren’t being built by accident, and they weren’t being built to fight Germany. The only thing that came as a surprise was the opening of the war with a surprise attack on the US fleet at anchor at Pearl Harbor. There had been numerous war warnings issued to US Pacific forces in the weeks leading up to the war advising that war with Japan was considered imminent.
All of this is of course ignoring that the US entered WWI back in 1917.
You are of course, not right. Japan’s budget for 2012 on its military was $59.3 billion; it’s consistently had the 7th or 8th largest defense budget in the world going back decades. Due to the way Japan’s post-war constitution is written, a fiction that it isn’t a military is maintained by calling it Land, Air, and Naval Self Defense Forces and technically making them an extension of the police force.
I have no idea what this even is supposed to mean.
A “homeland” is nothing more than ethno-nationalism in action.
All forms of modern-day ethno-nationalism are variants on the same theme: that a particular ethnic group (“ethnic” in the largest sense of the word) has some sort of more or less mythologized roots in some kind of territory, providing that group with the impetus to establish a nation-state there; usually, others are welcome to join as long as they more or less assimilate (or at least, acknowledge the primacy of the majority ethno-nationality). France is for the French, Germany is for the Germans, Turkey is for the Turks …
The difficulty of course is that generally speaking myths don’t come with handy and well-defined borders that neatly dovetail with other, competing ethnic groups and their ethno-nationalist asperations, leading to lots and lots of trouble - trouble that is still ongoing in lots of places. Is all of Turkey for the Turks, or is some of it for the Kurds? What about the Greeks? Is Cyprus for the Greeks, or is it for the Turks? etc. etc.
Knowledgable,
In 1942 the Japanese Air Force was the best in the world.
But, US propaganda portrayed the Japanese as sub-human, treacherous scum - they could live for a week on a hand full of rice - the pilots were chained to their aircraft - and similar nonsense. Japan was an enemy so they were demonized.
The propaganda was supported by real Japanese atrocities that would make Hamas look like Boy Scouts. They used military and civilian prisoners for slave labor. They beheaded civilians as a training exercise for officers and they enslaved civilians as pleasure women for Japanese soldiers.
We did negotiate and end the war and rebuilt Japan and suddenly the propaganda changed to the Japanese being good guys.
It appears that Israel is negotiating with the Unity Government. The results will be phrased to meet Israel’s propaganda needs, but they may actually be laying the foundation for a resolution.
Crane
Japanese surrendered because of the Russians joining the war. They have made statements about this.
If Hamas surrenders, of course, why not.
Hamas needs to surrender not join a unity government simple as that.
Imperial Japan wasn’t built up dedicated to destroying USA. It was just another country until it had joined the war. It wasn’t created because of the war, it was there before and decided to join the war.
Hamas on the other hand is a product of violence and is dedicated to eradicate all Jews and will do whatever it takes to destroy Israel. If Hamas renounces its violent activites and recognise Israel everything will be OK.
But if Hamas thinks it can continue bombing Israel acting apart from Fatah in the Unity government while Israel tries to negotiate with it. Then the negotiations will fail as a direct result of Hamas’ strategies.
For God’s sake. Japan vs America in WWII is not even a remotely useful analogy. Just drop it already.
Carnal, that’s what I explained in my previous post.
Seems like everyone has settled on this subject, how nice.
Israel has agreed to return to Cairo on Monday.
International pressure is forcing Netanyahu into real negotiations on lifting the blockade. Of course it will not be lifted, but I suspect the severe fishing and economic restrictions will be relaxed.
Crane
In what way would Hamas still be Hamas if it renounces violent resistance?
Hamas does not predate the conflict, it is a result of the conflict, right? Isn’t it largely the result of Israeli oppression of Palestinians?
Your first question is nonsensical.
As to the second one, the obvious answer is “no”. Hamas arose as part of a trend in the Arab and Muslim world against the Arab nationalist regimes and the conservative monarchies in favor of radical Islam.
Hamas is an offshoot of a much larger movement in the Arab world - the Muslim Brotherhood, active in Egypt (you may recall it won an election there, and was deposed by the military) and Syria (in the 1980s, the Syrian government exterminated an entire city and everyone in it for rebelling under the Muslim Brotherhood banner).
Hamas is a relatively recent offshoot, but the Muslim Brotherhood itself long predates the establishment of Israel - it was founded in 1928, in Egypt.
I guess I am asking what purpose hamas would serve without the violence?
What other prupose does the militant branch of hamas serve?
So Hamas arose before Palestinian Israeli conflict? Can wikipedia be that far off the mark?
If there was no Israel, would Hamas still exist?
It sounds like what you are saying is that Hamas is associated with an organization that pre-existes the creation of Hamas so we must date hamas to the creation of that associated organization? :dubious
That’s not what I said and no one who debating in good faith would ask such an obviously loaded question.
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I guess I am asking what purpose hamas would serve without the violence?
What other prupose does the militant branch of hamas serve?
[QUOTE]
Seriously? They have the same functions and purposes as all radical Islamic groups, particularly those affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood.
Are you under the impression that Sayyid Kuteb was interested in nothing but killing Jews?
Do you even know who he is?
Maybe, maybe not. The answer is probably yes since radical Islamic groups are existing and thriving in groups other than Israel.
It appears that the Unity Government has succeeded in taking over the peace negotiations although Israeli propagandists only refer to them as the PLO.
In a few hours we will know if they have been successful in extending the cease fire.
Crane
Its a question with an obvious answer. But its not a loaded question unless you think that all the questions you ask with obvious answers are also loaded questions.
People are blaming hamas for the situation in Israel when the situation in Israel predates hamas. i.e. it is a result of the conflict not the cause.
Yes I know who he is.
And he did not start Hamas. In fact he was executed 20 years before Hamas was created.
So now that we all acknowledge that the conflict predates Hamas, can we also acknowledge that the conflict caused hamas and not the other way around?
Maybe, maybe not. The answer is probably yes since radical Islamic groups are existing and thriving in groups other than Israel.
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Uh, whut? 
No, I am not saying that.
I am saying that Hamas is an offshoot of an organization that predates the founding of Israel and has, in point of fact, nothing much to do with Jews or Israel.
It is a chapter of an Islamicist organization whose main target is revitalizing political Islamic practice within various Arab nations, whose main target has always been opposing secular nationalists and socialists and the like as “Western influences” bent on oppressing people and destroying Islam.
You can see their appeal, as in fact may secular, socialist-insipred Arab nationalist regemes have, in point of fact, been rather oppressive - see: Syria, Egypt. Of course, one in power, Hamas is just as oppressive or worse, as they are theocratic totalitarians.
When Hamas first arose, the Israelis did not take them seriously, as they concentrated on Islamic matters - including charitable works. In fact, the Israelis were willing to tolerate them, as a counterbalance to the overtly nationalist PLO. They ought to have been paying attention to what the Muslim Brotherhood was up to in other countries. Evidently, they made the same mistake as you - assuming they were some completely distinct organization, with little or nothing in common with other branches of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Israel has recalled it’s negotiators from Cairo. There is no information yet on whether they will actually leave.
According to the WSJ, Netanyhu had used Israeli/US military connections to stockpile weapons in anticipation of the attack on Gaza. But, now those stocks are depleted and the Obama administration is back in control. This administration is slow and deliberate. It will be interesting to see how they squeeze Netanyahu during the peace talks.
The way out for both sides seems to be putting the PLO on the ground in Gaza. Israel gets propaganda cover because it’s the PLO, not Hamas. The PLO can present themselves to locals as the Unity government and Obama can claim a humanitarian victory without publicly squashing Israeli propaganda.
Crane