OK, so we have a situation where Israel allows a tiny minority to control the situation by firing rockets. That is absurd. Go back to the situation between Japan and the US. The Japanese were launching massive Kamakaze attacks against the US while the negotiations were in progress.
Gaza has hit bottom. Israel cannot do more damage. The only solution is to begin rebuilding Gaza and to remove the economic restrictions. It is working in Ramallah.
You still haven’t explained how you will determine, in the context of a Homeland, who is a Jew? Are converts allowed? The Fallasha?
Your knowledge of the area is quite a bit less than you think, Hezbollah fighting Israel 20 years before it came into existence aside. You’re playing absurd semantic games trying to get around the simple fact that Israel started the war in 1967. It did so pre-emptively and quite legitimately as its Arab neighbors were very clearly themselves intending to go to war with Israel that year, but the fact remains that Israel struck first and initiated the war rather than wait to be struck and have the war initiated against it. Israel’s actions shouldn’t have come as a surprise, though they did, in the words of R. E. and Trevor N. Dupuy:
Anyone who’s Mother is Jewish, or, since some very Orthodox Rabbis make the decision, converts to Orthodox Judaism. I, for example, having converted Conservative, would not be eligible.
Fallasha, the Ethiopian guys? I believe the Israelis airlifted many of them to Isarel, although I may have the wrong country.
This is sad because you ignored that fact that my next post said I was wrong and your comments is the same of another previous post saying the exactly same sentence for ridiculing me on Hezbollah. Adding to that I have said that the war was initiated indirectly by Arabs states (by Egypt for committing an act of war and Syria and Jordan for mobilizing their troops to the Israeli border) and you also copied me saying losing the Straits of Tirans would be considered an act of war. So I don’t see what you are criticizing me.
Don’t try to prove me wrong using my own sentences. Also read my last post titled: Israeli-Palestinian Timeline
Palestine can end Israel’s “occupation” anytime it wants, by simply recognizing Israel has a right to exist, that Jews are people too, and by sitting down at a sincere table. They can end the deaths of thousands of Palestinians by simply not killing that one Israeli in a act of terrorism.
I have no sympathy for them, as they can end it anytime they want. But they dont want to, as their leadership is composed of Terrorists not statesmen or politicians, Terrorists who know they will lose power the day the conflict ends and thus want to perpetuated the killing indefinitely to keep that power to themselves, terrorists that dont give a rats-ass about their own people and constituents - just their own personal aggrandizement.
I don’t know what’s so hard to see about it. I’m criticizing you because you are factually wrong in stating the 1967 war was “waged against Israel by 3 of her neighbours”. The war was initiated by Israel, not its neighbors, albeit preemptively. Trying to claim otherwise is simply untrue. You are also wrong in including Jordan in both the list of nations mobilizing their troops and in being bombed by Israel in the preemptive strikes at the start of the war by the way:
That’s usually the way its done when your sentences are wrong.
Yes, well this brings up something else where you are simply entirely factually wrong:
As I’ve already mentioned you are entirely wrong about Jordan; you are even more wrong about Lebanon. Not only was Lebanon not mobilizing its troops and not a target in the initial Israeli attacks, it did not take part in and was not attacked by Israel in the 1967 war at all.
If you’re interested in the Six Day War, Michael Oren, the former Israeli ambassador to the US wrote a history, “Six Days of War”, which looks at the war and the various diplomatic and political events leading up to it. I thought it was pretty good, It also does a pretty good job looking at the impossible situation that Jordan found itself in.
I am pretty sure you know the concept of IR (International Relations) came up after WWI (at least as a proper discipline). There were two mainstream theories, the Realist Theory and the Liberal Theory.
According to the Realist Theory, there were no authority between states, self-help was essential and every country struggled in order to gain more power and thus, as there were conflicts on mutual interest, war was inevitable.
According to the Liberal Theory, states (mostly democratic governments though) would comply (might be the wrong word) and cooperate with each other, wouldn’t want to go to war, and would trade with each other creating a complex web of relations.
When WWI ended, scientists sought to find the reason behind the War and they faced the complex chain of events leading up to it, they were observing International Relations.
Then Realists, which already opposed there could be any lasting peace, supported their idea with the Great War and thus, Realist Theory gained popularity. Meanwhile, Liberal Theory (was called Idealist initially), argued that since this happened, World Powers would never go back to war again seeing the devastating consequences, more states would be democratic and would cooperate and trade with each other (pretty Utopian, I know).
Liberals were devastated as the World War II erupted… They were shocked as their whole ideology collapsed and the Realist Theory became the sole mainstream theory. This caused countries to adopt it,** become more aggressive for their self-needs and to obtain more power no matter what it takes. **
US had an isolationist (I would call it none-interference) policy until WWII. After Japan attacked them in Pearl Harbor they joined and they became very active in World Politics. US might’ve seen that war in the future was inevitable and thus tried to make a deal with Japan although they were being bombed by them. We should also note that even though Japan didn’t have the best army in the World (although one of the biggest in that time, now they can’t have an army, if I am right.) they would fight until they were dead, this is why kamikaze attacks were so popular. Adding to that everyone was used as a “warrior” in Japan, people were starving to their deaths while the Imperial Japanese government continued to waste all the resources they had to continue staying in the war. Note: Americans took severe mental damage from the Pearl Harbor attack as they weren’t used to being bombed.
Now, times has changed and World Politics, as well as International Relations way of working changed. UN didn’t exist until 1946, that is the biggest cause of change. Israel, being in an asymmetrical warfare with small Palestinian guerrilla groups and terrorists with domestic made cheap-quality rockets (Hamas).
Of course they will not negotiate. For negotiation to happen, both sides have to comply. Now Hamas want might the embargo gone, but they can’t launch massive rocket attacks against Israel and expect Israel to negotiate because the negotiations are the things that will lift or ease the embargo… If Hamas continues to bomb Israel, how do you except Israel to find their offers candid and look sympathetic against Hamas, which is already designated as a terrorist group.
Negotiations happen between states, not terrorists and states. One of US’ most mainstream policies are: No negotiations with terrorists. Now this is important, because US says it :). Adding to that Gaza might’ve hit the bottom but according to data from Israel they still have around 300 rocket ammunition (might be 3000 I don’t remember but probably 300.) and if they are still using it that is doing what the Japanese army did once. Starving their own people, causing their deaths and using resources for wrong causes.
The reconstruction of Gaza would be nice to see. It would increase the welfare for people, create jobs for them, give them safe places to live and protect them, although none of these can happen when Hamas is governing the region or if Hamas is in the Unity Government, a terrorist group working within a government… You know, there were 4 possible outcomes (read it somewhere else, don’t remember) of the war and one of them was the occupation of Gaza, again. This seemed evil in the beginning but at long-term it, the Gazans would benefit from it the most as Israeli government would aid the reconstruction of buildings, re-establishment of the infrastructure and creation of new jobs. They would also gain sympathy from the Palestinians, although some Arab states would probably view this as illegal and cry out “LIBERATE GAZA”… So, yeah, sad…
The Homeland is described in the Torah multiple times, although the size varies. Correct me if I am wrong but I think it takes up all the region of Palestine. Not the “country” but the region, so might be some parts of Jordan or Sinai or Lebanon too. A Jew is someone whose Mother is Jewish. Converts are of course allowed, why would they be converted if they weren’t going to be legitimate Jews (ask this to a Rabbi, I am assuming.).
For Fallasha’s meaning I had to look it up on Google and I think you mean Ethiopian Jew communities, they are called Beta Israel. These people are Jewish and I see no reason why they wouldn’t be let in Israel. They might be black because of their melanin levels, but their genes are probably the same if they are Ethnic Jews.
The rise and recognition of the Unity Government provides an opportunity for Israel to back away from a losing strategy. Only Israel can rebuild Gaza. Israel is in total control.
The Unity Government does recognize the right of Israel to exist, so that objection has been removed. There are many factions that profit from the war in Gaza. Netanyahu is currently battling with them in his cabinet.
I assume the US back channels are pushing for a resolution of the Gaza situation. If Israel fails to enter into a resolution now, the US should retain it’s military and economic ties with Israel but allow international condemnation in the UN.
I think you got what I meant but the only thing you seem to not have grasped it the fact that as long as Hamas is in this “Unity” Government, Israel will not comply. Anything affiliated with Hamas is affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood, as well as Islamic Jihad. They are terrorists.
This is the major reason why Israel will never fully cooperate with the new government.
The best way of making sense of Judaism is by conceiving of Jews as a “nation” or “tribe”, not a “race”.
The difference in anthropological terms (I’m saying nothing about biology here - in biological terms, humans are not divided into “races”) is that a “race” is a gouping, defined by culture, loosely based on external physical characteristics such as skin colour. By that definition, the Beta Israel and Ashkenazic Jews are clearly of different “races” according to Western notions: one group has Black skin, and the other has White skin.
In contrast, a “nation” or “tribe” is based on mutual acceptance of a defining mythology based on mythological or fictive kinship (which may, or may not, have a basis in historical reality) as determined by the nation or tribe’s rules concerning “legitimate descent”. Moreover, a “nation” or “tribe” can adopt members under such rules. A person under Western notions of “race” cannot simply be “adopted” as a Black if he is born White - his “race” is set forever at birth.
You can see this mythological kinship at work with the Beta Israel and Ashkenazic Jews. Both claim descent from the Jews of the Kingdom of Israel. It could well be that there is some truth to this, some actual genetic connection to ancestors from that kingdom, but clearly much of the actual genetic material is derived by slow interbreeding with the local populations; in any event, it doesn’t matter, as what is important is not genetics, but the shared mythology and cultural practices. The Beta Israel are “Jewish” because they share in Jewish rituals and believe that they are descended from the union of Solomon and the Queen of Sheba, or from the companions of the Queen, or perhaps from the Lost Tribe of Dan - in any event, they have some sort of mythologized connection to the ancient kingdom.
All political entities demonize their opponents. That always makes reconciliation difficult. Hamas is no more ‘terrorist’ than Israel. Which side has killed the most civilians of the other?
The irrational aspect is that Israel will not negotiate with an enemy. In conflicts the only negotiations are with enemies. Israel won’t negotiate because it doesn’t like the folks on the other side? As they say on TV - “C’mon man!”.
If Israel fails to engage with the Unity Government then it is still not ready to enter into a serious peace process. In that case the US should withdraw it’s support of Israel in the UN.
Jews do have a specific gene configuration (or whatever you want to call it) that distinguishes them from other people (races) in the world.
Colour isn’t a direct factor in race as, the skin colour of a person is directly related to the melanin level. Although if melanin levels aren’t adjusted according to the environment rather than races, then it could be a factor for race.)
Nation and race are closely affiliated because when we are talking about Israel, a nation-state, with the danger of the growing Arab citizens as their fertility rates are quite high, we are talking about people from the same race: the Jews.
Note: Actually since the Arab population is around 20%-25% Israel isn’t that much of a nation state anymore, more of a Jew-majority state.
They have done genetic studies on the Beta Israel: genetically, they resemble other Africans far more than they resemble (say) Ashkenazic Jews.
There is no such thing as a “Jewish race”, by genetics. Jews in some places have been relatively genetically isolated it is true, but Judaism is not, per se, based on genetics, but on culture; and Jews who are relatively disssimilar genetically (Ashkenazim and Beta Israel, for example) are both “Jews”.
Depends on what you mean by “race”. In the West, “race” is a social construct based on external apperance, such as the amount of melanin you are born with. Biologists tell us that “race” in the genetic sense doesn’t apply to humans, who are not clearly differentiated into “races”.
“Nation” and “nation-state” are, again, very different things: the former has existed for a very long time (it really is another way of saying “tribe”) while the latter is a relatively new phenominon.
Israel is a “nation-state” in the modern sense; Jews form a “nation” or “tribe” in the ancient sense.
The two are not synomimous. The “nation-state” of Israel was formed based on Jewish ethno-nationalism; yet it has citizens who are not Jews, and not all Jews are citizens.
I understand your perspective of this situation. Here’s what you are missing.
Yes, sides did demonise each other in the past, but no such attempt of demonising (North Korea is an exception because their leader is mentally unstable) the opposing side has been made in 21th century. Look at India-Pakistan, they have small border clashes but none demonises the other.
Secondly, Hamas is more terrorist than Israel, Hamas is a terrorist organisation according to US, EU, Japan and Israel, meanwhile Israel is a developed nation, the only one in Middle East among all the conflict, none of the countries not recognising Israel is a developed one. Most are developing and some or less-developed countries.
When it comes to civilian deaths here’s a summary what happens to them:
Firstly, there have been recorded instances of Hamas using women as human-shields, causing them to die from Israeli bullets and then display them boasting it on media saying Israeli forces intentionally target civilians. In the last operation to Gaza: Operation Protective Edge, every IDF batch, had their own professional photographer with them, carrying around impeccable cameras with super-high resolutions with them in order to capture and record instances of Hamas atrocities and war crimes.
Secondly, before Israeli Airforces bomb a place because there are Mortar Missile launchers located there, they first go over the place with another plane (might a small commercial one) and drop warning signs telling civilians to evacuate the area, because it will get bombed. Note that these are mostly civilian areas because Hamas loves to keep their rocket launchers in dense civilian areas, such as malls, near hospitals, market places and they also keep their rocket ammunitions under mosques. These all have recorded instances on them. Israeli government officials responsible of evacuating the regions also call and try to reach to any Palestinians in the area before they bomb it.
What Hamas does in return to these calls is to tell the civilians not to listen to Israeli government officials, they are just a couple of fear-mogerers and even relocate some people to those areas so they get killed and Hamas has something to create its propaganda! Now if you think Israel is unmerciful, think about what you just read for a minute…
Yes, Israel will negotiate with the enemy but there is no legitimate enemy to talk to, Fatah has recognised Israel and Israel it as the sole representative of the Palestinian people, thus they aren’t enemies, and Hamas is a terrorist organisation, which no country in the world would negotiate with (terrorist organisations, take an example, al-Qaeda, would the Yemeni government comply with them? Oh shit, right :)).
Israelis does like Palestinians as they are both Human but they do dislike people raining rockets on them, terrorists, as an act of nature…
Unity Government is a propaganda move, to gain Hamas back its popularity it lost making it seem peaceful; sadly by the massive number of civilian casualties has gained back some popularity for Hamas. It is a camouflage for Hamas to do its illegal militant activities on the backstage of the Unity Government.
US should never withdraw its support from Israel. Foreign Policy is important to be consistent and without Israel there would probably be less violence in short-term but in long-term the region would be, pardon me, “an Allah-u-Akbar zone”, exploding itself to ashes.