I worked briefly at a Piggly Wiggly stocking and bagging. We were encouraged to watch for shoplifters and to notify the manager or asst manager. From what I recall they had to walk past the cash registers before our manager stopped them.
This recent story worries me because I’ve used my shirt as a bag before too. Especially for fruit like apples or oranges. I’d go directly to the cashier and pay for them. I never dreamed I could get accused of shoplifting.
I often bring a reusable shopping bag with me to the store. If I’m only getting a few items then I put them in the bag while shopping. Go to the cashier and put them on the belt for check out. Is this illegal?
I understand cutting off security tags would be clear intent to steal. Or maybe shoving something down your pants or under a skirt. Even then it seems reasonable to at least wait until the person walks past the cashier. then there’s no question theft occurred.
So, what is the legal rule about shoplifting? Aren’t they required to wait and see if you check out before literally unleashing cops on someone?
Where I worked we had to be 100% sure that they concealed an item and most importantly you have to let them leave the store, then stop them.
The reason being no matter where they hid the item, in their pants, another bag etc. They could claim they intended to pay for it if you stop them in the store. This was advice according to police to ensure the charges stick.
It depends. In some places, the only laws that applies to shoplifting are those defining theft. In those places, you haven’t actually committed a crime until you leave the store. In other jurisdictions, there are laws regarding “retail theft” or “concealment of merchandise” in which concealing merchandise is enough to presume an intent to steal. BTW, I don’t think the man in the article was using his shirt as a bag- it says he put the game under his shirt, which he was presumably still wearing.
That’s one reason I got worried about what conduct could unleash the store cops or even the real ones.
I agree putting something under your shirt is suspicious. Our store would have watched this guy very carefully to see what he did with that game. We would have given him a chance to check out & pay before approaching him. These days, modern stores have cameras that security can use to track someone through the store. They can document whether the person paid or not.
I was just shocked they’d do anything before he had a chance to pay. I had always understood that the person had to walk past the cashiers and attempt to leave for theft charges to apply.
I alerted an employee at Home Depot about shoplifting a couple months ago. I was buying several boxes of 2 1/2" deck screws. Each box has a special bit included to drive the screws. These jerks were going into the boxes and stealing the bits. :rolleyes: I saw them break open several boxes.
there are laws stating where concealing an item is an offense.
i do think that stores will have to go with the spirit of the law. stores sell opaque reusable bags, branded with their name, for taking your purchases home instead of plastic or paper disposable/recyclable bags. people may use these to shop with rather than the wheeled carts or the open rigid plastic baskets, a benefit of that is to limit your weight and volume to what you can carry.
news reports being what they are have also stated that he shirted the item to have free hands to pick the kid up and prevent trampling. that was an early report though.
There’s a sign at my local grocery store asking shoppers not to put their items in the bags until checkout, presumably to deter theft, but I’ve never seen it enforced - plenty of people have their shopping bags open in their carts and use the handheld self-scanners as they fill them up.
The updated version of the Arkansas law refers to § 5-36-102(c) which states
Remember, even if the law says that concealment allows the presumption of intent or classifies concealment as a separate crime, it doesn’t *require *the store to take action before the person passes the cash register. I suspect that the laws were mostly put into place to address the person who conceals some items while paying for others , and who then claims to have simply forgotten about the items in the bag, pocket, etc
It can be, depending on the totality of the circumstances. A subject (even if cuffed) who starts to resist or even shows active tension can be decentralized onto the floor in order to gain/maintain control. This is a trained defensive tactics maneuver, and the level of resistance to justify it can be minute enough that outside observers wouldn’t even notice it. The subject can be restrained on the floor until additional restraints are applied (leg cuffs, etc.) or the subject decides to cooperate and is then lifted up and escorted away.
It can also be justified if a law enforcement officer gives a lawful order of “come with me” and the subject refuses.
Whether or not force was justified in this situation will remain to be seen after the investigative inquiry.
The one experience I had with shoplifting makes me wonder. What can a merchant do to prevent a suspected shoplifter from simply walking away? I was once accused of shoplifting. I had a digest-sized magazine in my jacket pocket (it had a subscription mailing label on and I don’t think the store sold magazines anyway) and evidently a clerk noticed it and assumed it was a book that I had lifted. Someone came out of the store as I left and accused me of shoplifting. I told him to go fuck himself and walked away. What could he do?
Did you read the article in the OP? Face down in a pool of blood, and in front of your grandkids? That was a real cop too.
Mall rent a cops can be even worse because they are often not professionally trained. There’s been stories of people detained in all sorts of improvised cells. Toilets, break rooms, closets etc.
What ever happened to plain common sense? Politely ask the father to pay for the damaged item? Our world is just crazy these days.
“Your honor, this guy resisted so little that every single bystander thought he was cooperating and walking peacefully towards the door. But i felt him twitch, and had to slam his face into the floor just in case.”
IANAL, but IIRC, the key things about the word ‘presumption’ in the law are (a) that it tips the balance of proof - once an act is committed that creates a presumption of guilt, that doesn’t prove guilt, period, but it puts the burden on the suspect to demonstrate why he shouldn’t be convicted. And the corollary is that (b) presumptions are rebuttable - if the suspect can show why the presumption shouldn’t apply in his case, then he’s off the hook unless there’s other evidence.
Dunno what the Arizona law is, but ISTM that the suspect would have a mighty strong argument that that particular situation gave him excellent reasons to conceal the merchandise that had nothing to do with any desire or intent to shoplift.
Same idea. There’s no effort to give the shopper a chance to pay.
People grabbing video games out of other peoples hands on Black Friday. Grandfather tucks one under his shirt so it won’t get grabbed. Was he going to pay for it? He never gets the chance.
A 4 year old child sneaks a bite of food while parent is distracted. Instead of asking the parent to pay, rent a cop security guard goes after a little kid.
My store manager tried to treat customers fairly. We had times when dog food or a case of cokes was accidentally left on a bottom shelf of a cart unpaid. He politely asked the person to go back and pay. No fuss, and no hard feelings. There’s no need to upset or embarrass a customer.
My manager did call cops on clear theft. We had one lady caught with a roast between her legs. She was spotted shoving it under her skirt and the Manager stopped her at the door.
Depends on the state. With Home Depot the loss prevention associates were authorized to apprehend with force and handcuff suspects in MA. Many shoplifters were tackled then held in handcuffs till the police arrived.
Regular employees however were strictly forbidden from attempting to stop shoplifters in an physical way.
LP was a separate entity so I’m not aware of what specific training or state credentials they might have been issued. All I knew was I couldn’t stop shoplifters but my LP associate could tackle them to the ground and the police didn’t question it one bit.
The policy in MA was to allow shoplifters to exit the building before apprehending them. Other instances LP was allowed to apprehend people in the store such as opening packages or altering bar codes.
Kroger stores here in Michigan don’t allow employees, including security guards, to lay a finger on a suspected shoplifter, even if the person blatantly wheels a shopping cart full of food past the registers and straight out of the doors. They are not supposed to take any action at all until the person has cleared the registers and is clearly heading out of the door. They’re supposed to call the police and if possible, get a vehicle plate number. That’s according to a friend who worked as a checker for them for over a year.
The story in the OP doesn’t even hint at a reason the man was slammed to the ground and knocked unconscious; that sounds like an over-zealous police officer.
not to mention the recent sandwich kerfuffle in Hawaii, Poll: Do you think the store needed to apologise?, where the majority appeared to side with the store. fluiddruid made a very sensible post there which is sadly in the minority.