I don’t think I’d agree with your breakdown (I think it’s closer to 1/3rd all round), but there’s probably no way to know either way.
I also think those groups are quite fluid – lots of people start in the first group, and are lead into the 2nd or 3rd, depending on their own personalities, intelligence, biases, etc.
Are these the same fluid people who claim to have “voted” for Obama before they voted for Trump?
They’re the real enemy, if you ask me.
No idea!
Why shouldn’t they? Is there a statute of limitations on colonialism?
It takes a very small amount of googling to find that this is not true.
Bangladesh blamed the refugees for crime and 2012 Ramu violence in Cox’s Bazar.[34] Bangladesh also follows a policy of making the country unwelcoming for Rohingya refugees.[35] The majority of the refugees are unregistered, with only 32 thousand refugees registering themselves with UNHCR and the Bangladeshi government. An estimated 200,000+ refugees are living unregistered in Bangladesh.[36] Amnesty International (AI) reports have stated that the Myanmar security forces are committing rape, extrajudicial killing, and burning homes belonging to the Rohingya in a December 2016 report.[37] Refugees have been displacing the indigenous people of the Chittagong Hill Tracts.[38] They have also been blamed for importing the narcotic drug Ya ba.[39][40][41]
Despite persistent concerns and criticism expressed by international human rights organizations, the Bangladeshi government has relocated nearly 20,000 Rohingya refugees to Bhasan Char since December 2020. The government says the relocation is needed because the mainland refugee camps are getting too crowded, and that only refugees who volunteer are being moved.[48]
In 2023, a growing number of Rohingya refugees fled the overcrowded camps of Cox’s Bazar on Bangladesh’s southeast coast and traveled in flimsy boats 1,800 kilometers (1,120 miles) south to Indonesia due to deplorable living conditions in the overcrowded camp, including food scarcity and lack of education, and work opportunities. In an effort to stop the landing of refugee boats, in May 2024, Indonesian police and fisherman started patrolling sections of Aceh province, located on Sumatra’s northwest point. In November 2023, more than 1,000 Rohingya arrived — the highest number since 2015.[49]
…I’ve been accused of antisemitism.
The only time that has ever happened to me was on these boards. It’s actually become a regular thing.
The first time it happened, I was shocked and upset. I went and reread what I wrote. I couldn’t see where I crossed the line. But I don’t think I did.
And as the accusations became more frequent, it stopped mattering. It became noise. Because the problem here is that if this is counted as antisemitism:
Or this:
Then almost anything said against Israel would be considered antisemitic. And that makes me antisemitic, I suppose.
But that really shouldn’t be the case, should it?
Because I happen to think that the UN is imperfect. But I also think Israel largely deserves their “rap sheet.”
I’m not going to call this a double standard. I think if you want to claim it’s a double standard, you have to show what resolutions you think were wrongly raised. It isn’t enough just to suggest the sheer volume of resolutions is indicative of a problem with the process.
And I can’t see how being unwilling to call this out as a double standard should be a measure of antisemitism either. Because again, volume shouldn’t be what we are measuring here but whether or not a particular resolution is justified. And if someone is unwilling to call this a double standard because they haven’t examined the details of every single resolution, should that make them antisemitic? I don’t think so.
As for why people are calling out this atrocity but not every other atrocity, it’s largely because our governments are providing material support for these atrocities, are funding these atrocities, are punishing people for speaking out and trying to stop these atrocities, and people, even on these boards, are denying these atrocities.
If people are going to deny atrocities here on these boards, damn straight I’m going to speak out about it, and there is nothing antisemitic about doing so. The mission of these boards has always been about fighting ignorance.
I don’t think it’s helpful to expand the definition of antisemitism to the point I don’t even know what people are talking about anymore. But I don’t think anyone here would disagree with this definition:
If I’m guilty of this, and if anyone can find any examples of me doing this anywhere on these boards, I will gladly own up to it, and you can report it, and I’ll take whatever punishment is appropriate.
But you aren’t going to find anything.
I think that antisemitism is on the rise. I think it’s evil, and I support every effort to stamp it out.
But I’m not going to stop calling out the actions of the government of Israel and the conduct of the IDF. The Prime Minister of Israel has an arrest warrant out for him for multiple warcrimes. Israel stands accused of genocide at the International Court of Justice. They have caused chaos in the region and disrupted the economy worldwide. And our governments fund and support this. I’m going to continue to protest in any way I can my own government for their complicity with the daily atrocities that Israel is responsible for, and I’m going to continue to fight ignorance here on these boards.
“There is no discrepancy in policing between white and black people. Simply showing the sheer volume of per capita arrests is not enough; you have to show what convictions were misplaced.”
We would all correctly identify that statement as racist nonsense. But somehow if it’s about Israel, it’s OK.
And if someone is unwilling to call the discrepancy in arrests between white and black people a double standard because they haven’t examined the details of every single arrest, should that make them racist?
Yes. Yes, it absolutely should.
A very good point. As best I can tell, the reason for that is that pro-Israel people are conflating bigotry against Jewish people with criticism of Israel. I don’t see that with any other groups or nations. Someone who criticizes the various groups or governments or other groups committing genocides in Africa (in places like the Congo, Sudan, Somalia, etc.) doesn’t automatically get labeled as anti-Black. Someone who criticizes the Saudi government, for any number of reasons (the LIV golf league, the treatment of non-Arab pilgrims going to Mecca, treatment of foreign workers, etc.) doesn’t automatically get labeled as anti-Muslim. Someone who criticizes the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan during WWII doesn’t get labeled as anti-Japanese. But with Israel the two get linked, and it isn’t by those doing the criticizing of the Israeli government.
What world are you living in? Not only does that happen, people who criticize Hamas and fucking Hezbollah or motherfucking Bin Laden get labeled Islamophobic.
Some of the people “doing the criticizing of the Israeli government” clearly didn’t get the memo.
There are obviously people who are Islamophobic. And those people do criticize Hamas, bin Laden, and so forth. But I’ve never seen someone labeled as Islamophobic for merely being against Hamas or bin Laden. Am I living in a bubble? Maybe. But where I’m from, the only people that I’ve noticed that get labeled as Islamophobic are those like the white women who recently assaulted a Muslim woman in a grocery store in Conroe, TX for the “crime” of being Muslim in public.
Moderating:
This topic is entirely too heated, and at a rough count, nearly half the posts are off-topic. I’m giving it a 30 minute timeout. I’m going to confer with the OP and my fellow GD mods and see if we can find a way forward on this. When this thread re-opens, please consider if your posts are re-fighting other issues, or are directly addressing the OP’s question.
Thank you for your patience.
Moderating:
After a review by all Great Debates moderators, we are extending to cool down on the thread until tomorrow morning. In reviewing the thread, we find that certain posters, most notably @iiandyiiii, @Babale, and @QuickSilver have been posting in a very inflammatory manner, to the detriment of the actual discussion. I think it’s no surprise to say that this is a very emotionally loaded topic, and this language inevitably derails the civil discussion that is the core of Great Debates. We are asking these three posters especially to take care when this thread re-opens to be mindful of these expectations for the forum. Otherwise, we will be issuing threadbans for the betterment of the debate.
While this statement is specific to the three mentioned above, to all, please be mindful that we respect your passion and sentiment, but the goal is, in the words of the late @Jonathan_Chance:
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If you feel you cannot honestly do that we suggest you take it to one of the many existing The BBQ Pit threads on the subject.
This topic was automatically opened after 11 hours.
Way to kill the party vibe, mods.
I know it’s a very common meme, but I’ve never seen anyone labeled antisemitic for simply criticizing the actions of the Israeli government either. Criticizing the actions of the Israeli government is the number one pass time of Israelis.
It’s like that Macklemore example. People will tell you, “He’s just being called anti-semitic for criticizing the actions of the Israeli government!”. But that’s simply not true. At the concert while giving the speech from which is frequently described as him “simply” saying “Free Palestine”, he also praised groups that lionize Sinwar with descriptions like this:
I’m sorry, but that’s not just “criticism of Israel”.
And then you take into account his prior actions (Jew costume for the Thrift Store song, a nonapology over that, various tweets about how “The Jews” control things and artists like him are just “Partying for the Jew”, etc…) and it’s pretty dang clear that he’s an antisemite. Not because he is critical of Israel.
Everybody criticizes him for his antisemitism, but never for his shite music.
Genius marketing strategy on his part.
The Ye Strat.
The way I wrote that came across wrong. I’m not saying the rohingya have it easy, they don’t. I guess my point is that prejudice against some groups is regional, while prejudice against the jews is global.
There are about 195 nations on earth. Of those about 180 are either christian or Muslim. Theres only 15-20 nations on earth that aren’t christian or muslim (various nations in asia that either have hinduism/buddhism as their religion, or that never adopted religion). Theres really nowhere for the Jews to go. The vast majority of nations on earth are christian or muslim, and both religions have a long history of abusing the jews.