This is not reasonable criticism. This is anti-Semitism.
Looks more like anti-Zionism to me.
Yeah, that’s his thing. He’s our own little piece of Stormfront. What makes it worse is the smarmy effete style of his posts. I think I’d actually prefer it if he said “You know what? I just fucking hate jews.”
I don’t see the word “Zionist” in any of those posts. I guess that’s actually a point in Sevstopol’s favor. He doesn’t pretend his hatred of Jews has anything to do with “Zionism.” So he’s honest there at least.
Eh? Just going by the quoted text, he seems to be pretty explicitly linking what he dislikes about Judaism to their support for Israel, which seems to be anti-zionist and not anti-semetic to me, even if he doesn’t use the word anti-zionist.
I haven’t read anything the guy’s written except for the posts quoted above. From those, I gather that he feels that the Jewish religion was once OK, but has since been corrupted by the Zionist movement(s). Dunno.
I guess if you see things like “[Judaism] is an evil cult” and “polluted” as mere criticism of Israeli policies, we’ll have to agree to disagree. From reading these and other posts it’s clear to me that he doesn’t want Israel to pull back from the west bank or work towards a two state solution or whatever. He wants Israel to be destroyed. He views its very existence as anathema, and views that Jews anywhere are considered evil as long as Israel exists.
He says it is polluted by the existence of Israel and that it is made to appear as an evil cult because of its members increasing links to its support of Israel. The link is pretty explicit in the OP’s first quote.
Ah, a much more temperate position to hold. Thank you for pointing that out.
Does anti-semitism = anti-jewishness? I keep hearing that Jews are not only a religion, they are a people as in a distinct ethnic group. I have also heard the Semitic people are not all Jewish. Frankly I’m not interested enough to sort it all out.
But I can sympathize with someone being anti-Jewish if we are referring to a religion. I am anti-Catholic, anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, anti-Protestant, and anti-any religion you can name, because I believe they create more problems than they solve, besides being evidence of delusional thinking.
I don’t read anything in the linked posts to indicate the criticism of Jews is based on anything other than some elements of their faith. Whether the criticism is valid or not I dunno, because I have never before heard the claim that support for the state of Israel is a necessary tenet of the Jewish faith. If the claim is true, then the religion is even more ridiculous and dangerous that I thought it was – again, not to single out Jews, because all the religions are not houses of god, but houses of madmen IMO.
I guess he’s ignoring whole sects of Judaism that don’t back Israel, hu?
Aw hell, let’s clear this up.
Hey, Sevatopol… do you just fucking hate Jews, or what?
Even if he “only” hated Israelis, would that be any better? Since when is it OK to hate a nationality?
Nothing wrong with hating a nation’s policies and actions.
Which ones are they? I can’t think of any, with the exception of a few small Chassidic sects. All of the major flavors of Judaism (Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Orthodox, Chabad Chassidism, etc.) wholeheartedly support Israel’s existence, and are generally supportive of the actions of the Israeli government. IME the Reconstructionist movement tolerates a considerable amount of criticism of the Israeli government, but it’s still entirely supportive of the nation’s right to exist.
I like this solution.
Addendum: I, too, read the comments in the OP as more anti-Zionist than anti-Semitic. I do think that Zionism and Judaism (American Judaism, anyway) have become so identified with each other that it’s very difficult to address one without, by extension, addressing the other. This is one of the things that has alienated me from organized Judaism - many, many people really do regard unwavering approval of the Israeli government as a tenet of the religion.
*cwPartner and I are currently members of a Reconstructionist congregation, and we belonged to a Reform congregation before that.
Lebavich Hassidic, I’m going out to dinner but if you’re interested I’ll elaborate later.
His criticism from just the portions you have quoted seem to say that required support for Israel in the various Jewish communities harms Judaism. That assumes that congregations require support for Israel. I do not know of that is generally true, but my personal experiences are that people critical of Israel are quickly and emphatically ostracized. The second premise is based on assuming that Israel as a state is acting immorally. Certainly that accusation has been made many times and defended against just as vigorously.
I don’t think the OP has made the case. And I think that the OP ignores the argument implicit in the quotes: that Israel’s long term behavior may be damaging to Judaism.
The OP seems to think that denouncing people who discuss this as an issue as anti-Semitic will make the issue itself go away. The question is: are Jews welcome to distance themselves from or oppose Israeli policy and if not, as the quoted material assumes, does it damage the reputation of the religion.
My opinion? (No, you didn’t ask) I’ve seen many Jews ostracized for mild criticism of Israeli policy, and some deeply vilified. I have not seen any acceptance, although I have heard it claimed that it exists. I also think that Israeli policy sometimes stinks to hell.
Do you mean Lubovitch? They may have been historically disdainful of the notion of Israel as a modern political state, but they have a strong presence there now.