I did not want to hijack this thread, so thought I would start another. Mods, I considered posting this to IMHO, but I figured it would turn into a Great Debate anyway. Please move it if you think it’s inappropriate for this forum.
Dinsdale and Dangerosa mentioned UU in the thread referenced above. It seems that a number of atheists and agnostics are members of Unitarian-Universalist churches. I was wondering what you get out of it - a sense of community comes to mind, but I am sure there are other things as well. Did you feel welcome or did people make you feel out-of-place?
The reason I’m asking is that I’m considering checking out the UU church in my area, but I’m not sure what to expect.
porcupine, I grew up in the UU church. Though I now consider myself an agnostic, I have been thinking about attending services again. My reason for considering it is just as you suggested, a sense of community. I live in a rather upscale suburb; most of the people who live here aren’t very much like me. (Amusing story: Last spring I was stopped on the sidewalk by a woman who had recently moved here. She stopped me to say hello because my husband and I were both wearing tie-dyes. She wanted to know where to meet more people “like us”-middle aged hippie-types-and didn’t want to miss an opportunity when it was presented.) I figure the UU church will be a good place to meet people that I might like to spend time with.
Do I think I will feel welcome? Absolutely. When I was growing up, the UU church I attended had several “members” who were actually Reformed Jews. There were only Orthodox temples in the area, and these people felt more at home with us. We had a seder at least one year that I remember. I figure if they could feel at home, my always-questioning agnostic self should be able to find friends, too.
By all means, check them out. I don’t think you will feel at all out-of-place.
All churches are a waste of time. Unitarian-Universalist Churches are a crutch for people form other religions who can’t fight the super-ego-embedded scolding of their chilhood for missing church.
*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Six months, one week, one day, 1 hour, 58 minutes and 47 seconds.
7643 cigarettes not smoked, saving $955.41.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 3 weeks, 5 days, 12 hours, 55 minutes.
Some other things that you might get out of a UU church:
Opportunities to practice social responsibility (i.e. volunteer at homeless shelter, clean up parks on Earth Day, build a house for Habitat for Humanity).
Opportunities to explore spirituality and religion - even if you aren’t big on a diety yourself, UUs seem to like to learn about other religions and their own spirit (which may or may not be linked to a diety).
Opportunities to learn lots of other things - UU churches sometimes sponsor speakers on a whole range of topics.
Someplace to turn to when you need the rituals of life (i.e. weddings).
Something to tell your neighbors when they ask where you go to church other than “I’m not real big on church.”
Esprix is actually the expert. I’ve only shown up at a UU church a couple of times. I actually show up at the Catholic church of my girlhood more often - but when the kids arrived, didn’t really want to expose them to THAT.
You’ll probably feel about as comfortable as you feel walking into any group of people you don’t know.
From what I read above, agnostics, atheists, Jews, Christians, and anybody else make up UU congregations. They get together to discuss spirituality and social causes.
To me, this sounds more like a community club meeting. I’m not denigrating UU here…I think it’s great that all sorts of people can hang out and feel comfortable, but I don’t see where the church part comes in.
UUism teaches that who you are and what you believe are more important than creeds or dogma. How can you not feel welcome there?
I got involved in the Unitarian Universalist church around the time I came out as gay, in 1987. Since then I was involved in their college-age group, a community theatre that started in that church, served on both local- and regional-level gay & lesbian concerns committees and music committees, attended several gay and lesbian and music conferences around the country, and eventually I had a seven-year stint as a choir director. I haven’t been active in the church since I left that position in 1996, but I’m looking forward to re-connecting when I move to San Diego at the end of the year.
I did go to the San Diego UU church when I was there a couple of years ago, and found it to be a lively congregation and a very welcoming atmosphere (one of the speakers talked about coming out as a lesbian, and the choir was pretty darn good).
Any specifics you’d like to know? You can always check out http://www.uua.org for the basics on the beliefs and such, and there may very well be a link to a web site for your local congregation.
Keep in mind that UU churches vary from area to area - in fact, there may be more than one within driving distance of you, and each could have its own flavor. The best thing to do is go in with an open mind, see how it goes, and then decide if it’s right for you.
Personally, I think everybody, deep down, is a closet UU, but that’s just a theory…
Actually, the closest one to me is the Eno River Unitarian Universalist Fellowship, so named specifically because it was thought that “church” excluded non-Christians. The congregation includes every type, from almost-Catholics to pagans, and I imagine atheists and agnostics, though I didn’t personally meet any when I went (I wasn’t one myself then). The services are pretty laid back. Someone will deliver a “sermon” on, say, finding the divine in everyone, or discuss coming out, or whatever. There is a “hymnal” with non-sectarian songs, and a time for people to ask for support for problems in their life, much like my Catholic church used to ask the congregation to pray for the sick, etc.
It seems that the Fellowship is also a good place to find others that believe specifically as you do, and get groups together outside the regular services - for instance, there is a pagan social group that uses the UU Fellowship as a focal point.
OK, folks? Please don’t malign my church. It’s a sermon, not a “sermon.” It’s a hymnal, not a “hymnal.” It’s a church, not a “church.” Just because it doesn’t conform to traditional Judeo-Christian standards (or, rather, doesn’t include only such standards) it doesn’t invalidate them as equal.
Sheesh. You’d think after getting this raft for so many years (“Doesn’t sound like a church or religion to me…”) I’d be used to it.
You want answers? Go to uua.org. It’s a start. Then come back to me. (Jeez, sounds like I’m starting RE classes…)
I only recently (a few weeks ago) found out about Unitarian Universalism. When I read about it, I got that excited ‘coming home’ feeling.
I’ve only been to church a handful of times in my life - I’ve attended a Catholic christening and a Methodist funeral, I’ve once heard Mass at Brompton Oratory (but I was only going for the ‘experience’, something which I felt very guilty about) and next week I’m going to an Anglican wedding. My parents were brought up to go to church, but they had lost their religion by the time I was born, and they decided that they wanted me to decide for myself about these things. They brought me up in a way that nurtured my enquiring mind, and they taught me right from wrong. They didn’t have me christened because it would have felt hypocritical to do so, and it was for me to decide.
I would love to go to a UU church, but there isn’t one in my area. I think there’s a postal fellowship that one can join, so I’m going to write and ask about it.
I don’t believe in the Christian God, but I do believe in holiness. (I read that thread where jmullaney was trying to tell Gaudere that oh, yes, she did believe in the Christian God even though she was denying it, and I felt both too pissed off and too newbie to butt in). I can’t be a Christian, because I don’t believe that Christ died to redeem my sins.
I’m going to do a little more ‘finding out’ before I go around calling myself UU, but that’s out of respect, really. I don’t want to feel like I’ve rushed the decision.
and btw, right on, Esprix.
Esprix, sorry, wasn’t trying to malign the UUs or imply the religion is in any way less legitimate than others. I hesitated to simply use the unadorned words “church,” “sermon,” and “hymnal” because they are saturated with Christian subtext, and Unitarian Universalism is much more inclusive than that.
OK Esprix, before you start the “Ask the UU guy” thread - does the Unitarian Universalist church’s doctrine say that there is a higher power (which I will call god for the purposes of this discussion?)
My quaker friend tells me that she knows of several atheists and/or agnostics that are quakers. (She also tells me that there are two kinds of quakers, what she calls “conservative” and “liberal”, and she differentiates them by the style of their meetings, in which the “conservative” quakers have a pastor and the “liberal” quakers don’t.)
i have a few UU friends…if i understand correctly, there is no “doctrine” per se for the UU church…other than, I guess, basic golden rule kind of stuff…
Unitarian Universalist Association
Principles and Purposes
The Principles of the Unitarian Universalist Association
We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote
The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
The living tradition which we share draws from many sources:
Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an
openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice,
compassion, and the transforming power of love;
Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the
mind and spirit.
Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the
rhythms of nature.
Grateful for the religious pluralism which enriches and ennobles our faith, we are inspired to deepen our understanding and expand
our vision. As free congregations we enter into this covenant, promising to one another our mutual trust and support.
The Purposes of the Unitarian Universalist Association
The Unitarian Universalist Association shall devote its resources to and exercise its corporate powers for religious, educational and
humanitarian purposes. The primary purpose of the Association is to serve the needs of its member congregations, organize new
congregations, extend and strengthen Unitarian Universalist institutions and implement its principles.
The Association declares and affirms its special responsibility, and that of its member societies and organizations, to promote the full
participation of persons in all of its and their activities and in the full range of human endeavor without regard to race, color, sex, disability,
affectional or sexual orientation, age, or national origin and without requiring adherence to any particular interpretation of religion or to any
particular religious belief or creed.
Nothing herein shall be deemed to infringe upon the individual freedom of belief which is inherent in the Universalist and Unitarian heritages
or to conflict with any statement of purpose, covenant, or bond of union used by any society unless such is used as a creedal test.
There is a test at http://www.selectsmart.com/religion that tells you what religion best fits your belief system. My number 1 religion was Neo-Pagan, but #2 and #3 were Unitarian Universalist and Liberal Quaker. Liberal Quakers are apparently pretty open-minded.
I grew up in a unitarian church…or at least attended for most of my childhood until I decided church was boring and I’d much rather spend Sunday afternoon doing other things. I never payed much attention in sunday school at that church, nor at the services, but I do remember that there wasn’t a terrible emphasis on -religeon-, as I have observed in other churches. Sure, we learned about the bible and stuff…but I don’t feel that it was taught to be taken literally. I don’t know, the unitarian church indeed seemed to be more focused on community than religeon. Not even when I was a child attending that church did I have much of a belief in god or the bible or anything of that matter.
Anyway, this is all pretty pointless. I guess I’m just saying that…unitarian churches are cool, from the perspective of someone with no belief in religeon
Thanks for everyone’s responses so far. And a special thanks to llama à la lama. Your insightful, well thought out, information-packed response is more than I could have ever hoped for. :rolleyes:
I have already found a couple of UU congregations in the area. One is here and another is here. The second is further from my home, but it’s in a Frank Lloyd Wright building - how cool is that?
I’m not even sure why I am thinking about getting involved with this at this point in my life. It’s not like I’m having any problems with my lack of belief. I have many friends and family members in the area, but I have felt a little disconnected and isolated this year due to some personal issues (since resolved), so I guess I am looking for a way to meet some new people, get involved with things, etc. Seems like this might be a way to accomplish that.
