On another board I post to, we’re talking about some why-kids-today-are-so-rotten glurge. One of the ‘points’ in the glurge (12 Rules For Raising Delinquent Children) was: "Never give him any spiritual training. Wait until he is 21, and then let him “decide for himself.”
Now, several of us protested this rule – saying that it is entirely possible to raise moral children without any ‘spiritual’ training at all.
So here’s the interesting part (to me) – a poster (an atheist, raised in a nontheistic home) said that she did not view the words ‘spirit,’ ‘spirituality’ or ‘soul’ as being religious at all, but simply pertaining to her internal self – her thoughts and emotions, etc.
I found this fascinating. I (an atheist raised in a religious home) find those words to be explicitly religious; and ‘spiritual training’ to mean ‘religious training.’
So, what say you, atheist Dopers? Do the words ‘spirit’ and ‘soul’ imply religion to you? Also, please, include in your answer whether or not you were raised in a religious tradition, or nontheistically.
When I was younger and not an atheist, just a doubter, I found “spirit” to be religious and “soul” not. I didn’t necessarily believe in a spirit but a soul was something I could get behind. Now that I am an atheist I find the words to be synonymous and religious. And non-existent.
It depends completely on the context. It seems clear to me that the meaning in the glurge is religious. In addition, “spiritual” is a pet peeve of mine. It’s so often used as a word without real content, as in, “I’m not religious, but I’m spiritual.” Gag. It just means the person refuses to think about whether anything is true and like as not treats crystals with the same intellectual rigor as “religious” people do their gods. Or less. It annoys me.
I can have the holiday spirit, and I do have a certain amount of soul when I dance, but barring such specific contextual definitions, no, I have no spirit, I have no soul, there are no such things, and they are usually connected with religion.
No, I don’t find them explicity religious. I don’t believe in spirits or souls, and I wouldn’t use those terms. But religion to me means some level of organisation, and just those alone aren’t enough. Besides, i’m sure there are many people - atheists among them - who aren’t especially religious but believe in spirits or souls.
I lean atheist, and was raised half-heartedly (or maybe more accurately, half-assedly) Catholic. I’m with *Unauthorized Cinnamon ** on “spiritual”. That word makes my teeth itch. But I firmly believe in a “soul”, without any religious connotation at all (but definitely with a moral * connotation). To me, my (or your) “soul” is almost, but not quite, synonymous with “personality”. It’s what makes each of us uniquely ourselves. My soul belongs to me and only * to me, and I am solely responsible for it’s upkeep and condition. Every bad thing I do dirties it, and every good thing I do shines it up. My soul is the part of me that’s keeping score, even if no one else is.
*Bad = against my moral code
**Good = meets or exceeds the expectations of my moral code
And yes, I realize how fuzzy and silly and poorly thought out that sounds when I try to write it out. But it makes sense in my head, dammit.
I was raised as a Unitarian Universalist/Jew/Non-denomenational Christian. Basically, I went to the UU church, but was left to find my own religious path.
I am an atheist, and have always rejected the word and concept “soul.” To me it implies a non-corporeal consciousness that I don’t believe in and is by its nature religious (in my opinion, of course).
As far as ‘spiritual,’ I completely get where Unauthorized Cinnamon is coming from, but I think it’s often a useful word to communicate to someone that while you might not be Christian or believe in God, you still have questions and ideas about some of the same ‘big’ questions. It’s code for “I might not be Christian, but that doesn’t mean I think religion is stupid, or that I worship an altar of Darwin in my bedroom.”
I used to use ‘spiritual’ all the time, but these days I’ve shied away from it because it’s such an undescriptive word that it feels like a cop-out description of my beliefs.
While I don’t believe in God or life after death as either is described by organized religion, I do believe that we are greater than the sum of our parts and that human consciousness goes beyond just chemical reactions within the brain. When I’m trying to express these ideas, I find that either of those terms better describes the non-physical component of human consciousness, since people tend to equate “mind” with “brain” but don’t seem to have the same problem with “soul”.
I was raised lapsed Catholic (weddings and funerals, with the odd Christmas service) and would describe myself as mostly agnostic with a strong aversion to religion.
I also did my undergrad degree in ethics, which means I spent the better part of four years discussing metaphysical concepts such as “spirit” and “soul” in various texts, some religious and some not. I guess it’s made me immune to any religious connotations.
Atheist here. To me ‘spiritual’ is religious. I can’t think of any time I’ve heard it used in a non religious way. Mainly I’ve heard it used to describe people who aren’t particular fans of organized religion but still believe in god(s).
The word ‘soul’ is trickier. It certainly has religious trappings but I think of it more as a literary or poetic device.
I think “spiritual” is almost always intended religiously. “Soul” can be intended figuratively sometimes. Context tells you the intent. There is no question that glurge is intended religiously and is insulting and ignorant.
Both of them are religious to me. I can use them in a figurative manner (“I like a girl with spirit”; “I sold my soul”) but their literal meanings are unequivocally religious.
I can use those words metaphorically, e.g. “He has a beautiful soul.” But I’d never use them literally, with all their religious baggage. Same with “sin.”
‘‘Soul’’ tends to be a religious word for me. (Atheist/agnostic here.)
‘‘Spirit’’ could be religious or it could be referring to one’s emotional state. It is not necessarily a religious reference, but it is talking about internal, apparently ethereal things like emotional states, personality or life narrative.
I do consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I do not believe in god, per se, but in a duty to know myself thoroughly, and to do everything necessary to find my meaning in life and my place in the world. I view that as a sort of spiritual quest. It is larger than me, it is somewhat incomprehensible, and it pertains to identity, therefore I regard it as a spiritual matter.
Spirit isn’t automatically religious to me. Neither is soul. Soul music for example. Spiritual is generally religious, but spirit can just mean enthusiasm.
The “spiritual” in those rules is clearly a cowardly euphemism for “religious”. These busy-body rules have been around for ever. This one is particualrly nice because of the sarcastic tone. I got them via email from my in-laws years ago. They forward tripe of this kind constantly to a large list of people, pretty much as a chain letter, always with an intolerant religious theme. Sure, there are nuggets of truth in such things, mainly because they use vague, poorly defined terms like “spiritual”.
Do I sound bitter? Sorry. I am not religious nor am I spiritual yet I managed to raise my kids to be very kind, very moral adults. Who woulda thunk?
Wait … does believing in Santa count as Spiritual? Cause I had my kids going up until 8 or 9 years old. They still CLAIM to believe but I just don’t know anymore …
To me, your “soul” is your software. It’s the information in your brain, as opposed to your brain tissue, which is your hardware.
It reamains to be seen if, when you die, your soul gets uploaded to that great Hard Drive in the sky.
“Spirits” are disembodied sentient entities. They may or may not exist.
I agree. “Religious” has accumulated a certain amount of negative baggage, so folks say “spiritual” even though the matter at hand has precious little to do with (supposed) spirits.
To me, soul is explicitly religious, but spirit is not.
For me the soul is that part of you that continues after your physical body dies, which I don’t believe at all.
Spirit is more like something’s essence and it can change depending on what happens to it. Spiritual is different. I don’t know how to really explain it. It can occur in a religious context, but it doesn’t have to.
Over here we go much further with all this kind of use. It’s common to hear confessed atheists like myself use terms as:
God help him/her/them
Well holy/God/Christ/Mother of God!
… please God. <–at the end of a sentence.
My favorite would be used instead of something like “oh, for fucks sake!” and it’s, …Aah sweet mother of jaysus!
They’re all used over here by everyone, believers or not. Hiberno-English is full of it.
As to the OP, apart from the euphemistic usage they are religious. I hate “spiritual” with a passion.