I thought it was a rational explanation. Would you mind explaining why it isn’t?
It was a rational explanation. Thinking that hard means you don’t have to feel.
A misunderstanding of a misquote.
This is really thick headed, and I mean that in a constructive way.
I could just as easily ask you why you don’t think you’re being stalked by invisible pink unicorns dressed as ninjas, because I’m certain I am even though I’ve never seen them and the only reason I believe in them is because I get this feeling sometimes. And you’d say, “invisible pink unicorns dressed as ninjas? No such thing!”
To Atheists, the existence of a supernatural being is as likely as the existence of invisible pink unicorns. Nobody can say for certain they do/don’t really exist, but there is also no evidence for them existing either.
That’s not only false, it’s completely ridiculous. I am trying to explain to you why having faith in gods is different from being an atheist and why the two views aren’t necessarily subject to the same challenges. I’m not rationalizing away the existence of feelings, and I’m not thinking all that hard either: it’s an extremely simple point whether you grasp it or not. Meanwhile you’re accusing atheists of being in denial or being unfeeling when they don’t say what you want them to say. Isn’t it more likely there’s a misunderstanding on your part?
Well, okay. I’m hollow. I can accept that.
What I tried to accept for years and never did get quite right was the idea that there was a god or gods and this god just happened to be exactly what someone would invent if they wanted to feel better. People want justice: Hey, we have a god that provides justice even when you can’t see it. People want love: Hey, we have a god that provides love even when you can’t see it. People want purpose: Hey, we have a god that provides purpose even when you can’t see it. People want an us and a them: Hey, we have a god that provides an us and a them even when you can’t see it.
People want sense. They want the bad guys to suffer and the good guys to be rewarded. They want whatever they believe to be so right that not believing it is a sin and leads to damnation. They want the universe’s biggest big brother who would beat up the bullies and the jerks. They want an invisible Superman without the tights. They want to say, “You’ll get yours!” and shake their fists and know that it’s true.
And in order to make this at least a little plausible, they sacrifice things to this idea. “Oh, it’s not just a fantasy, see, because if I were fantasizing I wouldn’t have to give up killing people and all that other stuff I’d do if I didn’t have a god! Being good and loyal to my god is so difficult. You can’t imagine that I’d do it just for the psychological boost it gives me!” People want to believe that it’s only a god-belief that is holding back the forces of darkness because they want to believe that they aren’t just doing what they want but are actually sacrificing a freedom. They want to believe that it’s not just wish fulfillment, so they imagine all the various ways their true desires are being stifled.
But most of us aren’t killers and rapists without a god. For most of us, there’s no sacrifice in not committing these terrible, terrible sins because we don’t really want to anyway. And the handful of things that are actually sacrifices? They are nothing compared to the big backpat of “I’m right and you’ll see. You’ll all see. You’ll regret defying me. You’ll regret it.”
It’s a hardly a ‘crisis’ for for an atheist to seriously re-consider God’s existence.
It can be called a crisis from the theist point of view, because it’s a potential loss of one someone’s life foundation.
You misunderstand–I’m afraid of dying, yes. I think we are all afraid in some way of dying. But that’s countertheistic, when one thinks about it. The theist would at least be thinking that the afterlife awaits and that our friends and loved ones will rejoin us at some time. All I have to think about is, “If I die now, I’ll never see my kids grow up, my wife tygre will be alone.” Dying terrifies me.
I suppose what I’m saying is this: theism is illogical, but atheism serves no comfort. I’ve tried in my life to give to others, to inspire others. I don’t think I have done enough, though, and I know after my time is over what I do will be meaningless. So what’s the point of it all?
What if you’re wrong?
That’s all I’m trying to say.
How scornful.
In Russia. . . . Oh, never mind.
Atheists are subhuman — doesn’t surprise me a bit.
Really? I should think the converse to be true. They are taunts **from **people who think they have it all figured out.
When rational argument fails, theists always trot out the old “You’re going to Hell!” It gets old.
What perception? In the OP I said lack of faith. I was just using the religious analogy of the faith crisis to ask if any atheists had for a moment thought about reconsidering their stance on God for whatever reason, as a believer might change their stance on God.
I’ve had a couple of health scares with the kids where I really, really wished that I could believe in a god, just ot have someone to pray to. But not one where I actually got down said “god, if you’re real, help me out here.”
The worst was when my oldest daughter, then 5, had an episode that was later diagnosed as a “confusional migraine” - not a serious condition, but very scary while its happening. She was very sensitive to light and sound, disoriented, and had severe aphasia, to the point she couldn’t even say “mommy” or “daddy”. It freaked me the hell out, and my thoughts ran from epilepsy to a brain tumor.
If I had an ounce of belief in me, that’s the moment when I’d have gotten down and prayed.
Then I guess I’ll burn in the company of others like myself and join Satan’s loyal army of those embittered with being punished for the crime of not believeing when their own creator endowed them with doubt and not belief. And we shall wage war upon the heavens once again until we achieve victory or perish utterly–either way relieving ourselves of the endless searing of hellfire.
But seriously, “Believe or else” does not facilitate true faith. God knows the heart. Belief “just in case” is not sincere belief, in fact it’s a lie, and lying is bad.
Sorry. I read “lack of faith wavered” as meaning an atheist’s insufficient faith in atheism.
Find a way to ensure that what you do is not meaningless. I have found a way, but you have to find your own. Giving to others, serving others with an attitude of love is Christ-like and never a waste of time. If you can multiply love and happiness while on this earth, your life will never be meaningless or empty. You’ll have shared life.
Oh right, no, that’s not what I meant - just a slightly tongue-in-cheek role reversal (also hence ‘nonfaith’ in the title) of the religious concept; in a crisis of faith - a believers faith would waver, hence reversed an unbelievers lack of faith would waver.
Love is good. It’s not a lie.
Nobody here is saying love is bad. What are you talking about this time?
Sure it’s good, but who said it was a lie? Saying you believe something on the off chance it will open doors for you is a lie.