Atheists: Ever had a crisis of nonfaith?

[Mewl_Dear]

Obtuse or troll?
Start a poll.

[Theophane]

@Little_Nemo

I’m not talking about using Christianity as a weapon. What I’m talking about is the belief that Christianity is strong enough to stand up for itself - that Christianity can survive in the same room as atheism and Islam without crumbling into pieces.

Obvious it can, and has, and will continue to do so. But not in a way that atheists or Muslims will be happy about. Christianity does more than stand up for itself, and is not shy about being the hammer that smashes (:(). Atheists hate this aggressive, oppressive religion. I certanly have no argument with that.

Christianity is strong enough to stand up for itself, but not in a way Christ Himself would approve of. Christianity, as a religion of man, is not meek or rational or anything an atheist would appreciate. The godless man recognizes violence and cruelty as a means to power, respects these things. The meekness of Christ is scorned and mocked by the godless man. Strength and ass-kicking is what he admires. Guns, violence, explosions!

And I’m beginning to suspect that you’re looking to take offense at anything that’s said to you.

We are beginning to engage each other in a more profound way, I think.

[Theophane]

@Mewl_Dear

Obtuse or troll?
Start a poll.

I realize I’m going against the grain by saying what I say on these boards, but that does not make me a troll. You should respect someone brave enough to say unpopular things.

[Der_Trihs]

@Theophane

You should respect someone brave enough to say unpopular things.

Not when they are unpopular because they are foolish or outright wrong.

“They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.” - Carl Sagan

@Theophane

Christianity, as a religion of man, is not meek or rational or anything an atheist would appreciate. The godless man recognizes violence and cruelty as a means to power, respects these things. The meekness of Christ is scorned and mocked by the godless man. Strength and ass-kicking is what he admires. Guns, violence, explosions!

:rolleyes: Ah, here we go with “atheism is evil” again.

And claiming you are the son of a god isn’t meek.

[Theophane]

I am not the Son of God.

I am a son of God.

[Der_Trihs]

@Theophane

I am not the Son of God.

I am a son of God.

You said “the meekness of Christ”; and he is claimed to be the son of your god.

And there’s no more reason to think you are “the son of God” than there is to believe you were grown in a vat by Martians. Less, actually.

[Theophane]

@Der_Trihs

You said “the meekness of Christ”; and he is claimed to be the son of your god.

And there’s no more reason to think you are “the son of God” than there is to believe you were grown in a vat by Martians. Less, actually.

I should just block you.

[Kenm]

@Theophane

If my head stays attached to my neck, the superiority of my religion should be evident.

Ah. Trial by combat.

[Der_Trihs]

@Theophane

I should just block you.

Or you can grow some skin and learn that not everyone feels the obligation to pretend to agree with you.

@Kenm

Ah. Trial by combat.

Preferably with the Original Series Star Trek fight music.

“500 quatloos on the Muslim!”

[Fiendish_Astronaut]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Far more likely, IMO, than an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god, is what I call the Master Programmer.

That’s the idea that someone has created a computer powerful enough to simulate an entire universe to a level of granularity sufficient to satisfy the perception of an AI contained within that universe: everywhere I look is constructed to a degree that will fulfill my sensory capacity. If that computer could be created, it could probably be mass-produced, and it’s possible that there are billions of such simulations running concurrently; the chances that I’m a “real” being, rather than an AI in a simulation, are pretty low (since there’d be a lot more AIs under this scenario than “real” beings).

And it’s quite possible that the Master Programmer is looking for certain emergent properties among her AIs. Specifically, she may well be looking for AIs capable of analyzing their environment in a rational manner, rejecting the spurious supernatural explanations seeded within the scenario. The Master Programmer will save these rational, analytical AIs after the simulation is completed. The AIs that accept the spurious, nonrational explanations? They get deleted–or maybe they get copied over to that entity’s version of Doom to act as intelligent opponents for a highly advanced FPS game, where they get gibbed for all eternity.

Fantastic post there Left Hand.

[Kenm]

@Der_Trihs

“500 quatloos on the Muslim!”

Fifty thousand Cronkites on the atheist!

[lavenderviolet]

@Duke

I suppose what I’m saying is this: theism is illogical, but atheism serves no comfort. I’ve tried in my life to give to others, to inspire others. I don’t think I have done enough, though, and I know after my time is over what I do will be meaningless. So what’s the point of it all?

I give you a lot of credit for being so honest about these feelings. I too have found that as I’ve lost some of the people who I cherished most in this world that it is tough to avoid those nihilistic feelings.
I don’t blame you for not finding the whole “They live on in our hearts” type talk comforting. The sad reality is that it’s not fair that your mom died before her time in such a nasty way. I wish very much that there was some sort of heaven for all the innocent people like her who didn’t get the life they deserved here on earth (including my own mom, one of the most good-hearted people I ever knew, who also died far too young of cancer). It sucks that this is how the universe works even if it is in fact the reality of things.

I honestly believe that the way most people cope is either by adopting religion just to get some comfort out of the idea (even a vague hope) that there is an afterlife, but if that’s not their style then they just try their best not to think too much about it.
My own way of coping is basically: Even if life has no real objective meaning, there are still moments of fun and joy, so might as well try our best to enjoy them while we can.

[NDP]

My most recent crisis of non-faith happened in 2003 when I was watching the National League Championship Series between the Cubs and the Marlins. As most baseball fans know, the Cubs were within five outs of going to their first World Series since 1945 when they suddenly unravelled after the Steve Bartman Incidentoccurred. After seeing the Cubs utterly collapse in that series, I temporarily became convinced:
(1) God exists: and
(2) He really hates the Cubs.

(BTW, I’m not a Cub fan.)

[Theophane]

@Kenm

Ah. Trial by combat.

No, not trial by combat. I’d have to maim or kill someone in order to “win.” That would actually prove the meaningless of my religion. It would be a Pyhrric victory.

[Gukumatz]

[Mod Hat]

A lot of people in this thread need to cool down, ASAP. This is - and it does look like some people need to be reminded - IMHO. IMHO does not feature personal attacks or accusations of trolling.

Any further violations of IMHO and board rules will result in Warnings.

[/Mod Hat]

• Gukumatz,
  GR & IMHO Moderator

[Little_Nemo]

@Theophane

Obvious it can, and has, and will continue to do so. But not in a way that atheists or Muslims will be happy about. Christianity does more than stand up for itself, and is not shy about being the hammer that smashes (:(). Atheists hate this aggressive, oppressive religion. I certanly have no argument with that.

Christianity is strong enough to stand up for itself, but not in a way Christ Himself would approve of. Christianity, as a religion of man, is not meek or rational or anything an atheist would appreciate. The godless man recognizes violence and cruelty as a means to power, respects these things. The meekness of Christ is scorned and mocked by the godless man. Strength and ass-kicking is what he admires. Guns, violence, explosions!

I’m not interested in talking about violence or fighting or killing. These are subjects you raised, not me.

I disagree with your views on atheism and Islam. But these are also not subjects I want to discuss with you.

I want to talk to you about Christianity. To get back to my previous post, what would you say to a person who was considering conversion to sway him to accept Christianity? Obviously, he’s not going to accept any arguments based on an existing belief in Christianity because he doesn’t have that. So what arguments can you offer to a non-Christian to convince him Christianity is the answer?

[Theophane]

If I knew the person wouldn’t be receptive or appreciative of me trying to convert him, then I wouldn’t waste my breath. Whatever come-on I might think of would seem pretty lame. Truth be told, I’m not very good at hard-selling Jesus to people.

[Little_Nemo]

@Theophane

If I knew the person wouldn’t be receptive or appreciative of me trying to convert him, then I wouldn’t waste my breath. Whatever come-on I might think of would seem pretty lame. Truth be told, I’m not very good at hard-selling Jesus to people.

As I’ve said several times, this is a person who is open to the possibility of conversion.

Someday in the afterlife, you might meet Jesus. He died on the cross to save mankind. You want to tell him you once had a chance to save somebody but you thought the effort was a waste of time?

[Theophane]

I’m extremely hesitant to present Christianity the religion as the answer. Christianity has lost its way.

[MostlyClueless]

@jsgoddess

I can’t imagine a major life-crisis making me turn to god. The biggest and worst thing that has happened to me was my first husband’s death. If there is a god, that god had just said “fuck you” to me and my life.

The problem of evil is a big problem when my life is great. It’s even more insurmountable when my life is terrible.

Just wanted to say that this is exactly how I feel.