Dunno, I manage quite well.
Someone who does good because he’ll be punished if he does bad isn’t good at all.
Morals do not have to come from even the vaguest sense of any god. My father was an atheist and his message was clear “DON"T CAUSE HARM TO ANYONE”. No need for any commandments! His 'WRATH 'was if you break that rule I will be VERY disappointed! I used that message bringing up my son but I added ‘Do what you know is right. Never let anyone talk you into doing anything that makes you rethink what your gut tells you.’
My son is 18 and started Uni in Feb, High School finished in Nov. Some friends he hasn’t seen then since the end of high school texted him to meet today. He had a two hour gap between Uni lectures (the three are all unemployed and not students).
They met in the city and went off to a tattoo place. When I got home he started telling me all the details of his friends tattoo’s and watching them all get them. “So do did you get one?” I asked. (I really have NO objection to tattoo’s and if he wanted one I really wouldn’t care) .
His answer made me feel like a successful parent, he said “why would get one just because they did?”
I’m sorry I know nothing about the Jesuits. Are they spectactualy special?
Shit what I know about Catholics could be printed on the head of a pin!!
I agree with you 100%.
If only I could convince certain members of my former church of this. It is extremely important to several of my former congregation that my kids go to church so that they learn how God wants them to behave. When I tell people I don’t believe in an afterlife, their response is “then what’s the point of doing what’s right?” And the really weird thing is that they believe that their afterlife will be better than mine because they are being good for fear of a Judgement Day, while I’m just being good for the hell of it.
I can’t get stubborn adults to understand that morals exist outside of religion, let alone kids. I’m still new at this atheism thing. But when I converted, my moral code did not change. Atheism does not equal amorality.
I like the commandment “DON’T CAUSE HARM TO ANYONE for fear of Dad’s wrath.” Thanks. My kids ought to be able to figure that out just fine, and it doesn’t require me to teach them fairy tales.
Then perhaps you shouldn’t be making blind statements about them. :rolleyes:
Society of Jesus, aka the Jesuits
Sure you can disprove them. Take something they believe in, subject it to the rigors of science, and see if it holds up.
I’m not one of those wishy-washy atheists/agnostics who think that just because something’s not 100%, then there is, seemingly, a paradoxical need to consider all sides. 99% is good enough for me. If there is no evidence for a god, then screw the 0.00001% possibility that he can exist, HE DOESN’T and it’s proof enough.
However, I will always always concede that there is some chance I’m wrong. I’m not dogmatic. Hell, maybe I’m a dream and all reality that I know of is fake, who really knows? But the evidence for that is about the same for a god as religionists perceive him.
Given the kind of proof necessary for some people to believe one way or another, it’s a wonder how they can make any decision at all.
There’s no god. No proof of his existence has EVER surfaced that is credible and reliable. Sure, there’s a ton of things mankind can’t explain, but so what? That’s not proof, you could insert the FSM in there and it works just as well. And of course, there’s always the ever reliable given that you can’t prove something doesn’t exist. I truly believe that there currently exists no criteria that religionists can think up that would convince them there is no god
The first implies the second, in that “the rigors of science” aren’t really compatible with “personal revelation/experience of divinity/spirituality”, but in terms of personal experience “not provable rigorously” isn’t something that places high on the list for most people. It’s like the the old chestnut about “prove I love my wife, and am not just play-acting that I do for some kind of sex-for-security scam”–no outside observer could prove anywhere even near 99% that I really loved my wife, but that doesn’t change the fact of it for the two of us.
On the other hand, I’m also not trying to convince YOU to drop everything and start practicing Buddhism. (which has provable personal benefits to my heart rate and flexibility, but only because I bother to sit my ass down lotus-style and meditate–no woo-woo needed there.) Realistically, I’m just curious as to how you plan to stop a kid who decides he gets a good vibe from a “there’s a watchmaker God who doesn’t interfere, but who made sure it’s grandiose and could be great if we all try” or “meditation and moderation make me happy and life good” kind of faith without alienating said kid in the process, y’know?
I was reading some statistics (from a Pew study, which I don’t have the link to on this machine) and something like half of people raised with no religion go on to join some religion or another. It’s something you’re going to have to get yourself ready for.
Oh believe me, I’m annoyingly preparing myself for the day my kid comes up to me and admits he’s crazy. I’m not looking forward to it.
I suppose if he’s really set on it, there’s nothing much I can do. I don’t want to alienate him, but there’s few things to me more mentally dangerous and emotionally unhealthy for a person than believing in religion. I’d rather he start smoking weed instead, at least then he’ll be chill.
I don’t think your analogy is entirely accurate as love is a set of chemical reactions and feelings, and god is supposedly a real being. Love is like hope, dignity, fear, or boredom: it doesn’t really exist except as a descriptor of behaviors and emotions in living things. God is beyond all that as he’s actually physically somewhere, or can be if he chooses. So yeah, I believe I can prove that god doesn’t exist to the satisfaction of a kid.
To paraphrase a blog on freethinking parenting I was just reading, if they end up religious I hope they’re closer to the Dalai Lama than Fred Phelps, and if they end up atheist I hope they’re closer to Ayaan Hirsi Ali than Joe Stalin.
There’s been research done that the sensation of mystical/divine experience is also a set of chemical reactions and feelings, even to the point of being specifically located in a section of the brain. I’d have to look it up because I can’t remember the name of the neurologist who did the research.
As for the analogy in general, I was trying very hard to eschew discussing “God” and focus on “the feeling of religious/spiritual epiphany”, so as to compare feelings to feelings.
That may be the scientific explanation for god, but you’re still an atheist if you don’t believe he’s a real life, breathing, smiting deity that can create matter out of nothing. So no, I don’t think the analogy applies. Hell, if that’s what he thinks god it, good for him! At least he doesn’t think he’s real
You’re really missing my point, in that the feelings and underlying biochemistry of “there IS something greater” are very, very real–as real as “love”.
Given our current knowledge of neurology, we have no methods of proving the origin of any given emotional reaction or stimulus in the brain.
Therefore…look, just don’t take it too hard if the kid has a “personal experience of divinity” and runs with it, because we as a species literally have no way to prove/disprove the source of such a thing. While we do have a way to say “those feelings might have a non-supernatural origin”, that might not be good enough for the bag of hormones and angst that is the average teen.
It’s still just a feeling. Love doesn’t have to be “real”, its enough that you feel it. God does, or else the whole thing comes crashing down.
That’s what the weed is for 