You’re the one claiming that everyone that disagrees with you is “blatantly stupid and irrational”. That’s pretty arrogant.
Anecdotal evidence is weak here on the Dope but I have a question strugglingChristian. What has been your experience with people who have discovered any religion after the age of discretion?
Hardly; what they believe is obviously stupid. Just look at your own inability to defend it with anything better than variations on “you can’t prove it’s impossible!” I
I believe in the Holy Trinity of Bugs, Daffy and Elmer myself.
So, those believing in the Greek gods, the Egyptian gods, and the Babylonian gods were right? How about those believing in the Hindu gods today? At least those living 2500 years ago had the excuse of not knowing how the universe worked, so they made stuff up. What’s yours?
You probably have never overheard seven year olds arguing about Santa, then. Same thing. Some kids refuse to accept the evidence.
Daffy appeared to me one day, on the way to San Jose, and told me.
You can’t prove he didn’t. These kinds of revelations seem to be the best evidence Christians around here have.
(I hope the IPU doesn’t gore me with her holy horn when she finds I’ve been straying from the true path.)
OMD! You too??!!
Plus, I am impressed that you know the way to San Jose. I’ve been away so long. I may go wrong and lose my way.
No, you are the sane one. The ones that feel besieged are suffering from classic paranoid symptoms.
Just make sure to turn left at Albuquerque.
If the OP can explain why she doesn’t believe in Zeus, I’ll be happy to explain why I don’t believe in God.
I’m a firm Elmerite myself. Yea verily, for He hath promised His true followers a million dollars, a mansion and a yacht.
Hence the old rhyme:
Florb sky at morning
Faithful take warning
Florb sky at night
Set heretics alight
Who opened this thread again? Why would you bother to engage in debate with people about something that you know in your heart to be true? I think there’s doubt and insecurity there. What we are observing is the typical religionist who experiences the gnawing sensation of doubt in the back of his or her mind and the feelings of anxiety associated with such existential threats.
A common response to these feelings is to project them on to others who are seen by the religionist as different and alien. Having done this, they can close off the internal threat by combating the external “others.” It helps to imbue the “others” with negative connotations, like suggesting that they are angry and frustrated, suggesting that they are paranoid and always itching for a fight, believing that they are always on the attack, and characterizing them as unwavering adherents to their own form of religion.
The very act itself becomes a reification of the sense of belonging as a religionist; “I threw down the challenge to the unbelievers and my own identity escaped intact. Praise the Lord!”
“We must follow the shoe!”
“No, we must follow the gourd!”
“It’s not a shoe, its a sandal!”
This just makes no sense. It is commonplace for someone smarter or better informed about something to be able to make a better judgment call about that thing, even in the absence of a definitive answer. Your “logic” is ludicrous. Would you say a doctor is not smarter or better informed about your likely ailment because at the time the tests have not been administered to give a definitive answer? Your position defies logic, common experience and behaviour.
No Matter what one believes it is from a human, what ever has ever been written, read,thought, or taught is of humans. So one really believes in some other human. Plus there is separation of Church and State in our constitution to protect State from religions, and religions from State.
According to law it is unlawful to ask a person what their religion is…yet people demand to know the religion of a person applying for the job of President or any public official.
The first Christians were in the minority,and survived in spite of that, A lot of problems started with the Crusades,and in the early years those who felt Christianity was taking over the state. Sad..but true..“United we stand, divided we fall”. It was not such a divided country until religion started to interfere with state,from the blue laws etc. If one wants to wonder why our founding fathers had separation of Church and State they just have to look at history and see what happens when one religion tries to conquer the other,by trying to make their beliefs the law for all.
I’m of a few minds here, so I’m going to break it up a bit:
Why debate?
Debate is fun and I find it motivating. What I mean by this is when you are in a structured debate (or even an informal one), you should be attempting to put the best possible case forward. That (usually) means that you will have to do research. You will be passionate about the subject and you will try to find answers to rebuttals. In other words, debate provides motivation for researching a subject that you are (usually) interested in.
Why discuss things on the intrawebs?
That said, as I get older, I find discussions more interesting. I don’t like to feel as though I have to defend a position to the death, so-to-speak. Occasionally, yes (and in fact, there are message boards geared toward that), but at this point in my life, I’m just trying to have a productive discussion. While I feel that I have good reasons for the positions I hold, I’m not ‘married’ to any of them anymore.
Why Christianity?
I am very interested in religions of all stripes and Christianity in general, primarily because I used to be a Christian. I am also interested in a variety of supernatural beliefs. I was a member of a forum for a year or so in which members professed to be vampires. I’ve read multiple books on UFO’s and discussed various beliefs surrounding it quite often. I used to believe in alien abduction and the like.
Basically these sorts of subjects fascinate me and I’m always trying to learn more about them.
Do I seek to change people’s minds?
Not as much as I used to, I’ll admit. I’ll also admit that I do have a few issues where I am more passionate - such as church state separation or science. The reasons for this is because these sorts of beliefs effect me and my children directly. If a creationist school board is attempting to rip science out of the text book, that’s going to effect my children’s future education.
Do I think Christians (or a believer in X) is delusional or irrational?
Well, some are - there are people of all sorts of beliefs that fall under these categories. That said, I think the majority of Christians (or believer X) are rational people and are not delusional. I think there are quite a few introspective Christians who have reasons for their beliefs. I may not accept the conclusion for their reasons, but they seem to hold them for rational reasons.
This always causes me to wonder why the Psalmist said’ I said you are gods and sons of god, Jesus backed up this idea when accused of blasphemy," It says in your law you are gods, so why do you accuse me of blasphemy because I call god my father, when your fathers did?"
I wonder if the word God has had different meanings over the centuries?
It’s fine until he orders you to do something because Allah wills it. Not only that, but Allah permits the husband to use force to gain your compliance. At that point you have to make a stand. If you say “I defy Allah” then you’re just going to get a lecture about it. If you say “You’re wrong about what Allah wants” then you’re going to have to psychoanalyze an imaginary bronze-age deity. The easiest and most forceful position to defend is “I’m not playing this game because there is no Allah”.
Sure, if there’s no conflict and people aren’t using Allah to force you into anything, live and let live. But there’s no escaping that kind of conflict.