So a well qualified athiest wants to be the first athiest chaplain.
Congress wants to pass a law saying he can’t.
This seems like a clear violation of the first amendment. Is there any counterargument that doesn’t vioalte the first amendment?
I heard this guy on NPR and he used to be a die hard Christian and he lost his faith but feels he can still minister to the varied spiritual needs of a group of people with diverse religious backgrounds.
Is ordination in a religious order not a requirement of the chaplaincy? Or is that what he’s fighting?
He’s not the first atheist chaplain. I met and talked to at least one atheist chaplain when I was in the Army ten years ago. It was kind of a “keep it on the down low thing” however. So this guy may be the first openly atheist chaplain. Which I fully support.
I think they should have atheist chaplains for atheist soldiers. I mean, in civilian life, atheists don’t generally need it. But soldiers dealing with PTSD or the death of a friend may need someone to talk to about this stuff, and speaking as an atheist who has been doing a lot of grieving lately, the “seeing them in heaven” and “god has a plan” stuff does NOT help.
What are the perks of being a chaplain as opposed to being a counselor or therapist?
In the interests of fighting ignorance, does anybody know how this works?
I got ordained as a clergy member in the Church of Spiritual Humanism, and it was literally a button on the website that said “ordain me”. Presumably I can’t just rejoin the Army as a chaplain now, right?
And yet, plenty of denominations allow young, untrained people to become clergy. I think it would be discriminatory if you had to have been to seminary or something in order to be a chaplain.
I know college is a requirement to be any officer in the military, but they can’t require a religious studies or theology major for chaplains, can they?
But is that practical? Do they have to have chaplains for every religious view, available for every service person? I guess I had the impression that soldiers, at least in the field, would have one chaplain available.
And I would hope that a Christian chaplain would be courteous enough not to give you the “God has a plan” business if you’re an atheist, right? I hope.
Chaplains of whatever religion are expected to tend to the needs of service people of every faith, I thought. Which makes it plainly ridiculous not to allow atheists as chaplains.
I’ve read that a chat with a chaplain doesn’t go on your service record. A visit to the therapist does.
This is accurate with my recollection.
“athiest chaplain” is an oxymoron - atheist serving in the role of a chaplian is not. THat option should be avaliable, but I’m not sure how it would be regulated. Chaplain’s (like every other member of the military) have specific requirements to meet.
I’ve had many a religion-free talk with a variety of ordained gentlemen. If they are good at what a chaplain is supposed to be good at, they know when to set aside their faith and doctrine in favor of a wholly secular humanitarianism.
My uncle-in-law is a Catholic priest who spent 50+ years as a missionary in Haiti. He’s one of my favorite people and I’ve have many pleasant hours of conversation with him on matters small and weighty. I can’t recall the word “god” ever being spoken in that time.
As a matter of fact, they do. Given that you can be an atheist and pick up a religious studies degree, this doesn’t particularly give rise to constitutional issues. (I actually considered it for a while; I’m quite fascinated by religions, even if I think there is no God but man.) Given that there are “faith groups” that are happy to accept atheists, notably the UUs, I’m not sure if the requirement that you be “endorsed” by one causes a problem either.
Mind you, practically speaking, I’m not real happy that dude’s went and done this. I wonder whether an openly atheist chaplain, even without a mediastorm, could properly serve the needs of military personnel. With the mediastorm, there’s just going to be a bunch of resentment towards him and he DEFINITELY wouldn’t be able to properly serve the needs of military personnel. And he’s not ginning up great press for atheism, either. But hey, he’s getting his fifteen.
You know, I don’t know crap about how this works in the military, so I’d like to amend my earlier statement to say I think atheist soldiers should have someone available to them that serves the place of a chaplain (or is a chaplain) but who leaves religion out of the discussion at their request. A therapist is fine, as long as there’s no potential stigma for the soldier, which it looks like there might be.
Most chaplains I’ve met never mention religion unless asked. A Catholic chaplain must speak with everyone.
Funny, every atheist I talk with assures me that atheism is not a religion, but a mere lack of belief. Why does a mere lack of belief warrant a chaplain’s position in the military?
Or could it be that atheists want to be a religion when it suits them, and simply ‘those who lack belief’ when that works better?
Hmmm…
The army isn’t hiring him to be religious as such but to meet the needs of the personnel, which may involve religious counselling.
Or at least that’s the first reply that comes to mind to your little “Hmmm” crap.
This is one of the worst “gotchas” I’ve ever seen on the history of this message board, and that includes stuff from clo… oh never mind, what’s the point?
As a religious person myself, I’m open to the idea of an atheist chaplain, as long as he can fulfill all the normal duties of the chaplaincy. Ideally a soldier would be able to talk to a chaplain of his or her own faith if they desire; but I realize how impractical that is even with religiously ordained chaplains.
I’ve had quite a bit of experience (mostly as a family member, recently as active duty) with military chaplains, and (IME) you get a pretty wide spread of “religious expressiveness.” I’ve met Catholic chaplains who, other than their insignia, show no outward signs of being of any particular faith, and I’ve met some who are quite in-your-face about it.
On the other hand, I’ve also met chaplains who were huge bigots and ones who believed that Pearl Harbor was an inside job, and my friend met one that complained about “having to deal with so many fags” because of their “faggy high suicide rate” - those are the ones that give the Chaplain Corps a bad name.
If this guy is willing to do the job of a chaplain in the military, I really don’t see any particular reason to deny it, even if members of Congress find his lack of faith disturbing. Chaplains aren’t a part of the military to convert soldiers and sailors - they’re there as a link to home, as someone to talk to, and as a boost to morale. They’re expected to be able to deal with service members of all faiths - if he’s able to be what is essentially a low-level therapist for his unit, there’s no reason in my mind he shouldn’t be able to.
However, I also don’t particularly see a reason he needs to be able to, assuming everything’s hunky-dory in today’s Chaplain Corps. I’m not sure what he would bring to the table, considering that current chaplains should be capable of performing non-religious portions of their job (such as I imagine an atheist would require) without resorting to religion. To my mind, an atheist sailor or airman wouldn’t be asking a chaplain to perform a Mass or to take their confession, but would be speaking to the chaplain about traumatic events, problems on the home front, or issues in the command. I see no reason that a Jewish/Catholic/Buddhist/Satanist chaplain wouldn’t serve just as well in that respect, but I could easily be wrong. For full disclosure, I’m a (poorly) practicing Catholic, so that will most likely tend to color my views.
