Hmm… If god is an atheist and atheists aren’t citizens… does that mean we should consider God an illegal alien?
My God, no wonder we want him to get out of out schools:eek: :eek: :eek: !
Are these quotes made up out of the clear blue sky?
I’m genuinely curious. I have read this exchange between the reporter and Bush I before and never really questioned its accuracy due to the fact that Bush I and the Republicans heavily courted the Religious Right during his last Presidential campaign. Frankly, no outrageous crap from pols of any persuasion can surprise me any more.
So if a tree falls in the woods and only one reported hears it, it didn’t make a noise?
Just because some people didn’t hear it doesn’t mean you can flatly say it wasn’t said. Are you aware of every conversation in the room? Even a guy running for president isn’t always the center of attention.
I can see that one can’t say for sure it was said, but one also can’t say for sure it wasn’t said. Unless you were there and were listening to Bush 100 percent of the time.
No, Revtim, but if some clown says a tree fell in a forest right next to him, and none of the other people standing right next to him notice any tree, then no tree fell.
By your logic, we don’t know for certain that Clinton didn’t really have all those people killed, either.
We don’t have to prove a negative. Sherman has to prove a positive. Which he hasn’t done, and can’t.
Regards,
Shodan
Give me a break.
Like I said earlier…if this was a reporter from Pat Robertson’s CBN who “inteviewed” Bill Clinton and “reported” something outrageous…I have a hard time believing that you would be saying “well you can’t prove that Clinton didn’t say it”…you would dismiss it out of hand without more reliable and verifiable evidence.
I have a hard time believing it was said too, I’m just saying you cannot flatly say “it was not said”.
And it’s a wee more likely than Clinton killing people, Shodan. At least the atheist quote is consistant with Bush’s support of the religious right, whereas Clinton murder thing is consistant with nothing I can think of.
And no, you can’t prove a negative, which is why you cannot say for sure it was not said.
You can say it’s very unlikely, but you cannot say it was not said.
Umm…pay attention?
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Shodan didn’t mention Clinton, I did.
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The hypothetical interview I mentioned did not involve Clinton killing anyone…it involved Clinton saying something “outrageous” to a similarly biased “reporter” from the conservative right…like, I dunno,
“the soldiers who fought for America in the Vietnam War have blood on their hands and should be embarrassed for their actions”
…a “quote” that would be as consistent with Clinton’s opposition to the Vietnam War as Bush’s “quote” would be consistent with his support of the religious right.
Umm Wouldn’t he have been the VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES at the time?
I don’t know what you people are talking about. Stephen Hawking didn’t shoot the queen of England, he killed Princess Di- and that was AFTER Mr. Belvedere (well, the first time was anyway). And ALF is NOT an atheist.
Sez you.
ALF backwards = FLA = Fur Laden Atheist.
Do’h, sorry about the Clinton mixup beagledave/Shodan.
Revtim wrote:
Assertion:
You can NOT prove a negative.
Proof:
Um… damn! 
Conclusion:
I will from now on think before I make arbitrary assertions. 
Well, yes, but that doesn’t mean you should believe any outrageous claim that comes down the pike. In fact, you should be even more skeptical re claims against people who you don’t like, to balance out your own prejudices.
I don’t believe Bush Sr. said this for several reasons:
#1 - It would have been all over the news. And it would have been a big deal. I am a conservative and would have been outraged by a comment like this.
#2 - The person who wrote the article (Sherman) is not reputed to be a trustworthy and credible reporter. And he has an agenda.
#3 - As others have said, there was no independent corroboration from others who were present that Bush said this.
#4 - Bush was a former CIA director. He’s too freaking smart to say anything so stupid, even if he believed it to be true. (Which I don’t believe he does.)
I retract my apology. Shodan DID mention Clinton, you need to pay better attention as well. I was responding to his statement “By your logic, we don’t know for certain that Clinton didn’t really have all those people killed, either.”
Yes, I did mention Clinton. This is what occurred to me as an outrageous claim with no substantial corroboration. Just like Sherman claiming that Bush Sr. said atheists were not citizens.
Sherman claimed that on a certain date, under a described set of circumstances, Bush Sr. made that statement. Nobody else who was there on that date, and who would have been very interested in reporting it if Bush had said it, remember anything of the sort, then or now.
The claim of Clinton having people offed is not exactly analogous to the accusation against Bush, I will agree. A more exact parallel would be somebody saying, “I saw Clinton shoot Vince Foster at about 3:00am in the Oval Office”, and Monica Lewinsky chiming in, “Well, I was honking his horn for him at the time, and I didn’t see him shoot anyone.” I would guess that all of us would agree that Clinton didn’t shoot Foster if the accusation that he did was so specific, and so specifically refuted.
Sherman made a claim, and his version of events is radically different from that of others who were present at the time, and who could be expected to back him up if it were true. They don’t, so it wasn’t.
Regards,
Shodan
Guys, Sherman’s veracity has been discussed here before (starting about page two). By the time the thread ended, SDMB poster Scylla had contacted Sherman directly and been referred to Greg Lefevre of CNN (then San Francisco bureau chief). Scylla had contacted Lefevre but had not received a reply, and the thread ended without any corroboration for Bush the Elder’s comments. (Unfortunately, the timing of the thread was congruent with Election 2000, and we all found more compelling subjects to argue about.)
It would be interesting to find out if Scylla ever got word from Lefevre.
No, even that Clinton parallel isn’t even close to being exact, because it’s far more likely that one person said something stupid (Bush) than one person committing murder (Clinton). Extraordinary claims needing extraordinary evidence, and all that.
Did the other people present state that they listened to every word out of Bush’s mouth during that session, with every reporter, or did they just say they didn’t hear his say the quote in question? Big difference.
Look, I’m not saying it’s likely Sherman is correct, if I were to bet money I’d bet he was lying. But I cannot say flatly say for sure he was lying, and I don’t think anyone else can either.
Then you are asking that those of us who believe Bush over Sherman to prove a negative.
What indication do we have that Bush Sr. doesn’t whisper it into his pillow every night? Only Barbara Bush could answer that. And we could always counter that he does it after she falls asleep.
Sherman made a claim, for which there is no evidence, and against which there is the word of everyone else there. Feel free to withhold judgement if you like. It might be interesting to ask what you would consider sufficient evidence that Bush Sr. did not say what Sherman accuses him of saying.
This is how conspiracy theories get started. Any claim that can’t be disproved, has to have a kernel of truth in them.
Suuuuuuuure they do.
I thought atheists were the skeptical ones.
Regards,
Shodan
Shodan, read my post again, especially the last part. I am skeptical. I don’t think Bush said it. I just don’t think one can say for sure it was not said.
I’m not asking anyone to prove a negative, because that impossibility is what it would take to say FOR SURE the quote was not said.