The thing is, that’s EXACTLY the sort of thing theists proclaim as “persecution”.
Homophobia has as much if not more to do with it than theism, as I am sure you are aware that many theists do not oppose homosexual marriage.
Good example. And those miscegenation laws were challenged on the basis of what? A law can be unconstitutional without running afoul of the First Amendment. I have a hard time seeing how marriage laws violate the prohibition against making a law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. How do you get there? I can think of other parts of the Constitution one could argue such laws run afoul of, but I don’t see it here.
What does the United Way have to do with the Establishment Clause and the Boy Scouts?
I’d offer you a cupie doll, but I always misspell it.
-Joe
When I was in Charlotte a few years ago for a conference the local paper had a column saying that the locals really should cut down on the God Loves you and Jesus Loves you etc. directed at strangers, because they were scaring the tourists.
Atheist or not, this is a problem for all people who are not comfortable with the idea of praying as a group. As a non-Christian religious person, I would at best be offended and at worst (as a theoretical parental unit) calling out the school to correct kids who did this because it is bullying behavior, regardless of the tone of voice.
I acknowledge the work of many theists in the establishment clause cases upthread.
Let them proclaim; they will be wrong. When the law is on the atheists’s (and theist-no-organized-prayer-in-school crowd) side and they fail to see to it that the law is enforced (with the hand dandy aid of the always ready (and free) ACLU), then I can’t see what all their crying is about?
Whiner: Late night noise is such a problem on my street!
Sensible Listener: Call the cops.
Whiner: Yeah, but then the kids will complain that we’re being too strict.
that’s cause it was only handed out to the non-asshole atheists
No, just those of us who have at ability to see the patent hypocrisy in what most of your religious types are generally up to.
Remember, kids, you only have to do the parts of Jesus’s teachings that give you what you want!
-Joe
Cops: Sure, the law may be on your side, but I was out there making all that noise with all of my friends. Oh, and the harassment you’ve gotten since you tried to press charges? Yeah, well, you should’ve just shut up. Next time you’ll know better.
Uh, maybe because it’s an easy to spot instance of hypocrisy. You shouldn’t have to take it, but if you’re complainign about having to take it, you shouldn’t be dishing it out while doing so. Even my feeble theist brain cells can lasso that one in.
Is that a two handed brush you’re painting with? Bet you have a lot of theist friends you make fun of, huh? They probably dig it. You tell them they’re stupid and gullible, and even though they may not be hypocrites, well some theist somewhere is, so it makes it all better. Must be the life of the party.
You drip perseverance. Yeah, I can’t think of a single period in American history where the courts have stepped in (with the aid of the National Guard if necessary) to see that unconstitutional practices were halted. Could never happen. The crooked cop always wins. Which leads to the question, if atheists are so smart and the cards are so stacked against them, why not superficially convert? If you can’t beat them join them and all that. 'Cause no government would ever attempt to protect the rights of the minority.
A) My friends not only laugh like hyenas when I go after stupid religious idiots, they’re right there making up their own jokes. My friends are smart enough to realize that sharing a nominal religious belief with a moron does not reflect on them any more than sharing a shoe size. It also doesn’t hurt that I know the bible better than probably 90% of the christians out there and use it regularly to refute and rebuke ignorant religionists.
B) If being able to accurately identify and label shit as shit makes me arrogant then I am more than proud to claim the label.
C) I’ve found that a good slap across the face, metaphorically speaking, is an excellent tool to snap otherwise sensible people out of a hysterical mindset and focus them on reality. I’d only be an asshole about insulting stupidity if I then cavilled at someone else insulting mine. Stupidity of every kind, be it religious, secular, or any other kind should be mercilessly mocked and insulted, because it’s the only way to let the stupid know that not everyone values and enables yahooism. In a country where reality tv makes obscene amounts of money, it’s necessary to draw the line and refuse to tolerate ignorance and the dissemination thereof.
D) I am smarter than crazy christians. Sorry if truth hurts, but there it is.
As has been pointed out upthread, I don’t have any rules that require me to be nice about anything. Stupidity irritates me, stupidity wielding power infuriates me and if I feel like it I’ll be just as abrasive as I like. If you don’t like my tactics, you are more than welcome not to use them–your choice. See, I’m a live & let live type…
Won’t do any good. The vice-principal is the first one out the flagpole each morning. This what happened 4 years ago when the ACLU intervened: a letter was sent to the school board and the county attorney. The letter explained that several parents had expressed concern that children were being coerced into participating in prayer activity at the high school. Portions of the letter were read to the students over the loudspeaker one morning. The principal closed with “I want to make it very clear that students are not to be observed or overheard encouraging other students to participate in the silent prayer before school begins. I repeat: students caught encouraging participating in the Silent prayer must not be overheard. In this country, public prayer is merely a privilege, not a constitutional right, and we must be very careful not to have this privilege taken away.”
The next morning, the Christian students were seen loudly whispering encouragement to non-participating students. Teachers were seen winking, and making a big production of plugging their ears, whistling, or turning their back on the recruiters. The harassment of non-participating students and teachers got worse. Every teacher who had not been visible at the prayer meetings was suspect, as were several of the bolder non-participating students. Teachers who failed to show up at the meetings were ignored and treated with insolence. The overheard conversations were ramped up to include “Who do you think told on us? Who do you think reported us to the ACLU? Well, we all know which teachers don’t join hands with us…” and so on.
I just called Dad to ask him to read the announcement to me- and asked if the prayer circle was still meeting. He said yes, and that some local pastors and parents had been taking turns showing up to participate to show solidarity.
Actually, most of my friends are non-theists. As in, really don’t give a shit about it either way. Somehow we managed to hook up at the weekly crucifix burning, or something.
I am, however, surrounded by theists (Southern Baptists, y’all) whose idea of being a good Christian is to do whatever the hell they want and it’s all good as long as they go to church for an hour on Sunday. They have dry counties, but golly, I’m sure that’s not Christian motivated. Isn’t that a theist impact on our secular government?
Hypocritical bullshit. Defend it or not. Don’t expect me to take your beliefs in Odin, Yahweh, Jehovah, God, or Allah as anything other than silly.
-Joe
You don’t get it, do you? That’s not the point of this thread.
Yes, the government eventually steps in and sets things right… but in the meantime, we’ve got the persecuted majority, such as the panel the OP started the damn thread with, telling us that we should just shut up and take it. “Don’t rock the boat, 'cause if you do, you deserve everything you’ve got coming to you because you’re trying to stop us from worshiping”.
Are you seriously unable to see how shows like that episode of Paula Zahn can piss us off? Tell you what- try this: imagine if she’d done a segment called “Why are Jews so Reviled”… and didn’t have a single Jew on her show to refute the “Well, if they’d just stop talking about being Jewish, we’d all get along just fine” conclusion.
I think you might overestimate your intelligence. At least your posts concerning the establishment clause belie your claimed mental superiority. Then again perhaps you’re just not that well versed on the topic. Still so, an intelligent person would know to keep his or her mouth shut, were that the case.
I don’t expect you to even consider them. That’s not the point. But were you to mock me for something I believe and don’t expect you to believe, you wouldn’t count me among your friends.
-Bolding mine-
And I think that this has a great deal to do with how an awful lot of atheists view relationships with others. I was speaking to a contemporary the other day and he made reference to my being Jewish. I asked him what had given him that idea and he said, “Because you always speak Jewish.” Now, I’ve certainly been known to engage in some Yiddish, particularly when I want to curse and don’t want to do so in a language that’s readily recognizable, but I also use Spanish, Italian and German imprecations. I laughed it off, pointed out to him that I was speaking Yiddish, not “Jewish” and we began moving on with our meeting. Someone else asked me what I was, then, and I just artfully moved the conversation along without getting into it. Anyone who has tried to witness to me, I will usually smile politely and decline whatever they’re selling. If they push the issue, I’m likely to get a mite touchy up to and including telling them precisely what I think of their particular brand of Christianity. I can count the number of times that has happened on one hand, though.
I fear you’re primarily preaching (heh) to the choir.