One more thing I forgot is that Atkins says you have to avoid
nitrites. Sodium nitrite is usually found in processed meats (such as bologna, hot dogs, etc.)
All these rebuttals are Atkins viewpoints, not mine.
The Atkins diet doesn’t say you go without carbs indefinitely. It is low carb in its beginning stages, and gradually you are supposed to work yourself up to the carb level which you don’t gain any weight.
According to Atkins, the body always uses ketosis to break down fat, regardless of the type of diet you are on. Atkins distinguishes between diabetic ketosis (which is indeed a very dangerous condition) and benign ketosis.
Diabetic ketosis occurs when the body stops producing insulin and must break down all fat stores to produce energy. In benign ketosis, the body is still producing insulin as necessary to deal with whatever carbs your eating, but is using ketosis as the primary fuel source. The goal of the Atkins diet is to enter benign ketosis, so yes, ketosis will occur, and Atkins doesn’t think it’s dangerous.
Atkins does suggest using fiber or several other remedies if constipation does occur. He notes that constipation or diarrhea are common during the beginning of the diet, but according to him, these will usually disappear as the body adjusts.
IIRC, according to Atkins, the traditional eskimo diet consists mostly of protein and fat, and the incidence of diabetes and heart conditions is very low among eskimos who still follow this diet.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irishgirl *
**the main danger for people with atkins is that the body is simply not desined to last for long periods of time without carbs.
the brain need glucose for energy.
[quote]
**
There are a few things in the body that require glucose - parts of the brain, the eyes, and I believe a few other things - but that doesn’t mean carbs are needed. The body has internal mechanisms for converting fat to glucose - there’s no reason at all that the glucose has to come from carbohydrates.
That sort of seems silly. Prolonged protein intake is a bad thing?
Perhaps in extremely high amounts, you mean, but that’s still not correct. Ketosis is caused by the lack of carbs in the diet - it’s a way in which fat is metabolized. It’s natural, and there’s nothing inherently unhealthy about it.
You may be thinking of ketoacidosis - which is an entirely different condition - and, as far as I know, isn’t caused by excessive protein intake.
You may have noticed by now that this is a contentious issue. While the general question of “what’s this diet about?” can be answered, the question of, “Is this diet a good idea?” is much better suited to Great Debates.
I say that only as prelude to pointing you to a Great Debate that goes over a lot of these issues. Here’s another one. These threads go into gruesome detail on the diet, with plenty of cites to reputable studies evaluating it as well as evaluating the mainstream scientific dietary guidelines (which run counter to Atkins’s). Check 'em out!
i’ll just put my medical journals and biochemistry textbooks away shall i?
the PNG is from a study based on the incidence of T2DM worldwide. not anecdotal evidence i plucked from thin air.
this is the scentifically accepted theory on T2DM:
a high incidence of fat in the diet leads to preferential breakdown of fat by the body.
this causes a concommitant tissue resistance to insulin.
this causes high blood sugar as the body uses fat as an energy source.
with me so far?
a large proportion of fattty acids leads to type 2 diabetes.
someone with type 2 diabetes has as much chance of having a heart attack as someone who has actually had one.
proteins are not very good sources of energy for the body, as they produce more toxic metabolites than either carbs or fat.
if someone does not have an adequate fluid intake, the metabolites can build up and lead to osmotic diuresis. this state can lead to metabolic acidosis.
the body does not function well using ketones as it’s primary fuel.
in ketosis insulin production is decreased and blood glucose levels are increased in order to ensure that the brain has adequate supplies of glucose.
Atkins works because excess protein is excreted, not used as fuel, and your body’s fat stores are broken down to provide energy, which is fine.
such a catabolic state is not desirable in the long term, which is why the carbs are re-introduced, to give you the fuels you need to stay the weight you are.
however, a long term diet which is too high in protein can lead to kidney damage, and as it it usually high in saturated fats as well, will lead to higher cholesterol, and worse cardiovascular health.
plus the bowel cancer.
He recommends excercise because it’s good for you, not “you better excercise to compensate for the fact that low carbing is going to clog your heart!”
You originally said:
“They do encourage exercise, especially to help keep your heart healty because you are eating more fats and cholesterol.”
There’s nothing in there that suggests “especially to help keep your heart healthy because you are eating more fats and cholesterol.” That was my point… of course they advocate excercise, any reasonable doctor would - but they don’t claim that it’s necesary because of the increased intakes of fats and cholesterol.
Well, you’re probably more knowledgable than I am on this specifically, but that doesn’t mean that saying “prolonged protein intake” can lead to problems doesn’t sound silly.
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I was under the impression that carbs, if present in large amounts, will always be prefentially broken down to glucose?
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Why?
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Sort of. Are you saying that the body will process large amounts of fats as energy before processing sugar, leading to high blood sugar? That’s counter to what I’ve learned on the subject - where carbs get prefential treatment as an energy source.
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How’s that?
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Yeah, I agree on this part. Protein isn’t meant to be used as an energy source on any low carb plan I’m aware of - fat is.
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So the necesity to create glucose in the bloodstream for the brain results in a higher glucose incidence than if you eat carb-rich food? In other words, your blood sugar is higher if you don’t eat anything that’s converted into sugar?
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I would disagree with the sentiment that it works primarily through protein excretion.
**
Actually, I think carbs are reintroduced simply because they’re not harmful in moderation (which a typical diet certainly is not). They’re more restricted in the earlier stages because weight loss is aided - but there’s nothing inherently wrong with the consumption of moderate carbohydrates. The ‘maintenance’ cycle that Atkin’s recommend is reflective of that.
**
I read a while ago that there was a study that disproved this notion, but I don’t have a cite. Do you happen to have one handy that indicates that high protein intake damages the kidneys?
Also, what’s “too high in protein”?
Bowel cancer I don’t know about, but it won’t lead to higher cholesterol, because the reduced amount of insulin hitting the liver reduces internal cholesterol production, which is, IIRC, around 85% of what’s in the body. It reduces it - because it’s much more effective to reduce that 85% through not making your liver produce it in the first place than to try to regulate that other 15% through diet.
As far as the cardiovascular health - any study that I’m aware of that’s proven the negative effects of fat has never used carbohydrate intake as a factor. Basically “high fat, high carb, is bad… high carb, low fat is better, ergo fat is always bad” with no actual study of the effects of low carb, high fat diets. Most of the negative effects of high fat diets are only seen when in conjunction with high levels of insulin, and hence, a high carb diet.
I went on a low carbohydrate diet for two months recently and dropped 17 pounds to get to a better running weight. I was inspired because I saw several people drop a lot of weight with no exercise at all other than smoking. Now that I’m training for a marathon in April I have to eat more carbs because it’s rough for me to run more than 3 miles on low carbs. It works in the short term to lose a lot of weight quickly but I don’t think I could do it forever.
The Atkins diet will make you thin but it won’t make you fit.
I would like to point out that the Atkins diet is NOT an all protein NO carb diet. It is a high protein low car diet. The induction phase which is just to last 2 weeks is a way to acustom the body away from its sugar and car dependency. These are the cravings that make us fat. Rice, breads, cakes, sodas, etc. I was totally surprised to find that you can find carbs in just about everything and not all carbs are bad. Atkins recommends foods that have carbs but are high in fiber also. They recommend whole grain flour instead of processed flour. And when a person has achieved their wieght goal, the recommend a slow and steady increase of carbs to maintain the weight (easing up if they start to gain weight again) By regulating carbs instead of fat, weight loss and better health is maintained.
There is also one good side effect to eating fat without the carbs. It produces the “fullness” feeling. I found I eat less meat when I dont follow it with any breads or potato and I am still full and I dont get hungry right away. Chinese food like fried rice and chow mein are full of carbs, thats why you get hungry again so soon after eating them.