I had no idea which board to put this in so I left it here.
I dont get at how with such a big fad all this Atkins and low-carb crap (plus all the countless food fads) that I cant find an article about it on here. How can Cecil and his staff not write on such an important issue as debunking bullshit diets? Or did they but it hasent been added? 
Since neither Cecil nor staff have addressed this, I’m moving it to the General Questions forum. No biggie, but you might read the forum descriptions, DCCT, so you’ll have a guide for future. They’re on the main Message Board entry page.
Basically, the authorities are still out on the low-carb diets, which seem to be effective at weight loss (and also there is some evidence linking excessive carbs to depression), but have potential side consequences. Usually, Cecil doesn’t tackle something that still under investigation. While he tells us that he knows everything, he usually confines his answers to the bounds of human knowledge.
There was a truly excellent BBC documentary, shown earlier this year here in the UK, which dealt with this subject. It was probably co-produced with the Nova people in the US, so I expect it will get a wider airing.
Basically, they wanted to examine two points regarding the Atkins diet and similar low-carb diets. First, do the claims of ‘amazing’ weight loss actually stack up? And if so, why i.e. how does the diet work?
I’ll try to sum up a 50 minute doc as best I can.
Whether you are eating carbs or not, it remains true that you can only lose weight by ingesting fewer calories than you burn off in energy. If calories ingested is equal to or greater than calories burned, you won’t lose weight, and it doesn’t matter what you are or are not eating.
People following Atkins and similar low carb diets do tend to lose weight more successfully than control groups, and most didn’t feel they were cutting down on calories or ever feeling hungry.
After investigating a few other theories, the documentary came up to a conclusion. Protein triggers a feeling of ‘satiety’ in the brain more than any other food group. The higher the proportion of protein in your diet, the more likely you are to trigger this feeling of fullness and satisfaction, so you don’t eat any more. People who adopt low carb diets tend to compensate by eating more protein, and protein forms a higher percentage of their daily intake compared with people on other diets. So they reach the feeling of satiety and contentment more quickly than other people, so they don’t eat as much and don’t feel tempted to eat other stuff or to snack.
People who try othr diets, less focused on protein, find it harder to reach this feeling of satiety and so tend to eat more.
Also there is the insulin/sugar effect which in a ‘Standard American Diet’ causes one to become hungry sooner.
In short, eat carbs>spike in blood sugar>spike in insulin to counteract spike in blood sugar>body storing/converting sugar into gyclogen and fat>low blood sugar>signal to brain to eat to raise it>rince and repeat.
The high protein definitely has a lot to do with it. The one piece of research I’ve never seen is a side-by-side comparison of high protein/low carb and high protein/low fat diets comparing overall weight loss and body composition. If, as a lot of people suspect, it’s just a matter of protein consumption, then the two diets should be the same. Personally, I kinda think the low carb diet would come off looking better (at least initially) based on some of the stuff I’ve read.
Is there such a thing as a high protein/low fat diet? Most proteins come with lots of fat - nuts, meats, cheeses, eggs. Other proteins are often cooked with fats to make them palatable - legume and grain combos. There are lower fat proteins, of course, like reduced fat milk and cheese, and lean cuts of meat, but I don’t see a way to eat really high protein without getting a significant amount of fat - certainly more than the 20 grams a day we were aiming for during the low-fat craze of the late 80s.
Well, FWIW…
as has already been mentioned so I will do some summing up=)
1 - sugar is bad, mkay? white flour, processed sugars, starchy veggies like white potatoes/any veggie that when you look at the nutritional breakdown is lots of carbs and very low fiber will race into the bloodstream, give you energy [read the wrapper on a nutrition bar, if it says it gets its energy from carbohydrates, treat it like cyanide…] and then a fast drop in energy shortly afterwards. If you are a competition athlete that NEEDS that sugar rush, you probably are so active you can chow down on an open bag of sugar every day and never gain an ounce. You can go eat sugar…but when you stop competing, we will laugh at you when you complain that you cant eat the contents of the fridge anymore and looking at food makes you fat 
2 - protein is OK. Protein digests fairly slowly, and releases ketones into the sytem, that the body can use like glucose. Energy deriven from protein and fat doesnt spike, it is a gentlyer ‘time release’ sort of energy becayuse protein and fat need to be broken down. You can gain weight from protein and fat, so you need to watch the fat content. Also many people have noticed that protein and fat because of the way they are processed, you feel fulll faster and don’t tend to eat as much.
3 - High fiber carbs are good carbs…they are processed into the bloodstrem slower, and the fiber is good for the health of the colon. Crude unprocessed grains and legumes are preferred to processed ones = eat oatmeal, not oaty-Os with sugar, eat chili made with very lean meat such as turkey or 95% lean ground beast and kidney beans/tomatoes/peppers and throw in some kernals of corn and brown rice … make the meat .25% of the recipe, not 50-75% like most recipes call for nowdays.
4 - Proportion is somewhat important…some versions like the Zone have specific percentages of the diet that are to be protein, fat and carb. Others are more concerned that you have a limited number of carbs and the fat and protein are up to you…the definition of low carb is 100 grams a day or less by the way.
The official Atkins parameters are on their website, atkins dot com.
FWIW, I do a variant. I am a protein fiend, but I make sure that I do lower fat proteins - I adore fish, chicken, lean cuts of beef, eggs and cheeses. I am somewhat lactose intolerant and allergic to yoghurt so I avoid liquid dairy except for whole cream in my daily coffee [I do 4 cups of coffee a day now, from the desire to cut down on the fat in whole cream in my diet. my caffein source nowdays is tea=)] I use as bread either the atkins approved low carb breads that are mainly ground nuts and whole grains, or wasa brand crisp bread that is high fiber and lower carb. I like the crunch=) I will eat regular bread now and then on special occasions, as I have also been known to eat an occasional cookie, piece of wedding cake - it is a way of life, not of punishment for being fat! My veggies are the good lower carb/higher fiber ones - spinach is a favorite, bok choy, asparagus, artichoke, summer squashes, celery, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbages, rabes…and an occasional amount of onion, an occasional amount of potato. In general I prefer to avoid legumes as they have always caused me to fart, and I avoid high carb veggies like corn, peas and rice.
I can’t exercise, my back is messed up from a skiing accident 20+ years ago, but in 4 years I lost about 150 lbs just from the diet modification, and my blood glucose has stabilized at the low end for a diabetic, so I am no longer on metformin which makes my doc happy. I have a reasonable blood analysis, decent cholesterol and though higher in ketones than normal it is not ketoacidoses as I am not digesting my own muscle mass, I am using the ketones from the protein and fat to power my cells. The protein in my urine is not above normal either=)
YMMV…if you do want to start atkins or another of the low carb regimines, PLEASE READ THE BOOK ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND IT. Nothing chaps my ass so much as someone who hears the basic description of the induction phase of atkins and thinks that is what you do the rest of your life…and announcers who have OBVIOUSLY never read the book and therefor have no clue…there are message boards to help you make sure you understand everything and they will happily answer questions as long as it is clear that you have actually read the book and are seeking clarification…
The Weight Watcher’s Core program is high protein/low fat. The proteins are eggs, fat-free cheeses, skim milk, and lean meat. There’s fat in the eggs and the meat, of course. The diet also requires consuming two teaspoons of olive oil (or similar oils) each day, but fat would still only amount to about 10-15% of the daily diet. The allowed carbs are all unrefined, such as oatmeal, cornmeal, shredded wheat, and couscouse, as well as fruit and vegetables. It was only introduced in September though, so there’s no evidence of how well it works yet.
Today happens to be the end of my thirteenth week on WW Core, and I’ve lost 7.5% of my starting weight. I rarely felt deprived or hungry, quite unlike high-carb diets, where I hated the world every hour of the diet.
I think one of the main reasons why a Low-carb diet works is that most snacks are Carbo-heavy. Although you can certainly have large filling calorie laden meals, you tend not to snack so much.
I’ll put it this way… my jaw hurts after I’m through eating 600 calories worth of steak, and I feel full.
How much pudding is 600 calories? Not much, and it won’t fill you.
If you feel full, you’ll be able to stop eating. It’s about that simple.
What was interesting about this programme was while it suggested reasons for why people lost weight on Atkins, they were nothing like what the Atkins diet actually claims. It has nothing to do with ketosis, or any magical burning of calories. You cannot ‘eat as much as you like’. You simply don’t want to and actually eat less.
So at the root of it the Atkins diet is no different from any other; eat less.
The programme did however state that the health implications of the diet are not resolved.
All veggies have lots of fiber. Mashed potatoes, smashed potatoes, and that ilk don’t have much, because that’s not the whole vegetable. You are not eating the skin. Baked potatoes will have a lot of fiber if you eat the skin, along with much more vitamin C, which is located just below the skin. In addition, everyone needs some sugar. Your brain relies solely upon glucose for its energy. If you become very hypoglycemic, you will faint and then die.
Protein does not release ketones. Your body breaks up proteins to produce ketones when it is energy starved and needs the protein for its energy. Your body will use glucose readily for energy and will use glucose and fat for its energy supply, unless there are not enough available, when it will resort to protein as a last resort.
You are just missing the main point, though you have all the supporting points down. The brain MUST run on glucose, muscles can run on glucose or fat (well metabilized fat). When you run out of glucose that’s when ketosis starts in a process that converts protein to glucose which your brain needs, while the muscles run on fat.
This protein can come from diatary sources or if that is not an option then the body has no choice then to break down itself for glucose.
The one caveat that I wonder about is this: your body obviously can’t use some calories (such as those in wood pulp or mineral oil). Does it use all digestible calories with equal efficacy? That is, the calories from a tablespoon of mineral oil don’t make you as fat as the calories froma tablespoon of vegetable oil. But is there any significant difference in how manyo f the calories you retain from, say, 100 calories of broccoli and 100 calories of Crisco?
Daniel
The term to search on is “bioavailability”, and there are variations in how efficiently your body can use calories from different sources.
The straight dope is simple:
Don’t eat sugar.
That’s all Atkins is. Do not eat sugar and only eat whole, unprocessed foods. I’ve been on for about 14 weeks, I’ve lost 23 pounds (without changing any other habits, like exercising more…), and my blood pressure dropped from 140/90 to 121/84. Why?
Because I don’t eat sugar.
There are a lot of weird and bizarre beliefs about Atkins. Like, some people think that you don’t eat fruits or vegetables anymore. I literally eat fruits and vegetables with every single meal. I buy more fresh produce in my weekly trips to the grocery store than proteins or fats.
Some people are concerned because it is a high-fat diet. Most times my ratios are 70/20/5 fat/protein/carbs. Fat makes you full fast, and if you are not eating carbs, your body will naturally burn the fat for fuel. High fat diets are bad for you when you’re also eating a lot of carbs. And make no mistake, the average american consumes a metric s***load of carbs.
Some people will claim it’s just water weight. Whatever. That’s obviously false.
Some people claim that you “gain it all back” when you stop. Well, that’s true. For one thing, Atkins is a Way of Life, not a diet. If carbs are the reason you’re fat and you stop eating them to lose weight, what do you think will happen if you start eating them again? You have to follow the plan and eat a certain amount of carbs daily to maintain your goal weight.
I honestly cannot imagine why low-carb diets receive such ire and criticism. When all is said and done, the point is to simply stop consuming sugar. We all know that sugar is bad for you. Can anybody claim with a straight face that sugar is good for you? If it doesn’t have any real nutitrional value and it does horrible things like spike your insulin levels, cause acne, cause cavities and toothe decay, and contribute to massive amounts of weight gained, why not just stop eating?
Now,if you’ll excuse me, I have some cheese and turkey to munch on.
I can, although probably not in the sweeping sense that you’re looking for. One of the big things in nutritional research right now is nutrient timing as it relates to exercise. A mix of protein and sugar after a strenuous anaerobic workout is one of the best things you can do to speed up recovery.
This sounds pretty much identical to the post-induction stages of the South Beach Diet.
Cher3 is right - South Beach is low fat with a emphasis on lower carbs (but more ‘good’ carbs)
I did Atkins for over a year and did very well. Although my “bad” cholesterol dropped significantly I wanted my overall cholesterol to drop more so a month ago I did South Beach phase I and then II.
For me, the “low fat” part of South Beach was the draw, but eating stuff like couscous and eggbeaters left me feeling not only very hungry but very un-energized. I ate about 7 servings of veggies a day (which is a hell of alot of $$ in Ohio in the winter) and could barely make it through 30 mins of aerobics or a 30 minute swim.
While eating more fats and proteins, I had alot more energy - enough to keep up my 1-2 hr a day exercise schedule.
It really comes town to the exact person. I can tell a big difference in how my body feels when I eat different things. I feel my best when I am eating more fats, lots of fiber and a good bit of protein. YMMV
sigh And if you are not consuming the carbs to break into glucose, you do run on ketones. I can test my urine for glucose and ketones at the same time [diasticks are great] and I can use my glucometer to watch what is actually going on glucose-wise in my bloodstream. Suffice it to say that I do ketones. I also do 45-65 grams of carbs a day as I still want to dump some more weight [about 50 more lbs, to put me back to 150.]
per USDA:
1.00 X 1 potato medium (2-1/4" to 3-1/4" dia) 173g
Carbohydrate, by difference
g 36.47
Fiber, total dietary
g 3.6
All things considered, fairly low in fiber.
What I prefer is stuff like spinach,
1.00 X 1 package (10 oz) 284g
Carbohydrate, by difference
g 10.31
Fiber, total dietary
g 6.2
Broccoli
1.00 X 1 stalk 151g
Carbohydrate, by difference
g 10.03
Fiber, total dietary
g 3.9
or if financially able - artichoke=)
1.00 X 1 artichoke, medium 120g
Carbohydrate, by difference
g 13.42
Fiber, total dietary
g 6.5
When eating potatoes, I did eat the skins, I loved mashed potatoes with the skins left in the mix=) But I do know that I get more than the minimum daily requirement of fiber without taking a suppliment, and I get plenty of variety, and micronutrients as well.
I will add that I don’t seem to be fainting at all, and feel better when off carbs that when on carbs…my weight is decreasing, my bloodwork is good, and I dont fart as much=) and my brain seems to be doing just fine…now if they would come up with a way to replace my spine I would be thrilled!