Not sure what you mean here. I follow Atkins, and I haven’t died (yet). I lost about 80 pounds on it, too. I eat plenty of vegetables and fruit, and never have any plumbing problems.
You’re new here, so I’ll cut you a break. Do a search on “Atkins” and “carbs” and find some of the older threads about it. There have been lots of threads in the last year or two.
If you’re following it correctly, it can be a healthy way to eat - you just cut out excess sugar and white carbs, like potatoes and rice and pasta. You are supposed to eat lots of veggies on Atkins - anyone who thinks veggies are forbidden on Atkins doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
It’s not all meat and cheese and fried eggs. :rolleyes: Try reading the book and actually learning something about it before trashing it out of hand.
If we went to court, and I sought a declaratory judgment that the Atkins diet is not a balanced diet for long-term weight control and health, you would trot out your experts, and I would trot out mine. Each would testify: yours would say, done correctly, Atkins can be healthy; mine would say, done correctly, Atkins causes problems X, Y and Z and is therefore not as healthy as a balanced diet. Maybe you would win. Maybe I would win. In the threads you reference, I don’t think there’s a clear winner. Some people believe it’s good, some don’t. I fall into the latter category.
Bottom line, Atkins worked for you; congratulations on your successful weight loss – that’s an incredible accomplishment that took a lot of fortitude and dedication on your part. I still think Atkins is stupid.
I think the only clear winner in this thread is SkipMagic, who saw the trainwreck coming and moved this to the Pit. Anyway, happy mother’s day, all; I’m off to wish the mater well.
So, in other words, despite the fact that it works very well for some people, you’re saying it’s stupid. Different people just don’t like or deal well different diets or plans. Therefore, by your logic, they’re all stupid. Aside from which, your basic tenet seems to be in doubt here.
Yes, but you somehow connected this to say that Atkins is stupid. Re:
Atkins was not originally designed for normal people wanting to lose a few pounds.
Read the book. It was designed for long-term, morbidly obese, pre-diabetic and diabetic heart patients whose only other options were imminent death. People who because of their insulin problems literally could not lose weight, and who - due to their vast obesity and heart condition - could barely walk, let alone exercise.
It can and is used by less obese people. I’ve tried it (short term) and it does work. But I’ve always been aware it is not designed for normal, healthy people that are slightly overweight.
The more I read about healthy-carbing and glycaemic index aware diets, the more sensible I think they are compared to conventional, “1000 calories per day” ultra-low fat eating plans. The legacy of Atkins is that the wider world is starting to realise that sugar and refined white flour - not specifically fat - is our biggest health threat. The statistics are quite clear: it is sugar (specifically high fructose corn syrup) consumption that has lead to soaring obesity; there has been no equivalent hike in lipids in our diets.
Anyone wanting rapid results on a healthy and tasty diet should try South Beach: which is “good fats, good carbs” Olive oil and complex carbohydrates, not butter and white bread. After the first couple of weeks (which include masses of lean meat, fish and vegetables) you start re-introducing granary bread, brown rice, berries and so on. The meals are delicious. It is far lower fat than Atkins and you get the lower-carb diet benefits (beautifully regulated blood sugar) without going into ketosis.
But there is nothing wrong with Atkins per se. It’s just how it is implemented, and interpreted, and by whom.
Atkins is stupid, not because it doesn’t work (for some) but because it doesn’t work as advertised.
It has nothing to do with your body going into ‘starvation mode’, it has nothing to do with ketosis. People lose weight on an Atkins diet for exactly the same reasons they’d lose weight on any properly applied diet. They eat less.
Basically high protein/no cabohydrate diets make you feel stuffed with less. They’re also boring as hell. So you eat less.
And another thing, while I’m putting things straight, if ‘Krab’ is made out of fish it is not acceptable to any vegeterian. If you eat fish, you are not a vegetarian.
If Atkins isn’t actually stupid, it is certainly Learning Disabled.
Khan has already correctly detailed the nutritional problems with Atkins quite adroitly (and anyone who doesn’t think excess ketone production isn’t harmful needs to read up on nutritional biochemistry). Campion claim is essentially correct; you starve your body by leaving it without the necessary nutrients and accessibly calories to correctly process the proteins and lipids that Atkins recommended, hence the weight loss.
Some other objections to Atkins and general high protein/low carb diets:
[ul]
[li]The afformentioned bad breath and bowel issues. Yes, you can take dietary supplements, as recommended by Atkins, but that just serves to highlight how incomplete even the correctly detailed Atkins diet is.[/li][li]People on low-carb diets undergo emotional and hormonal changes that makes them unpleasant to deal with. While this is anecdotal, it is widely acknowledged.[/li][li]Atkins and low-carb diets are not substainable over the long-term. Even if it was a non-harmful diet in the short term or by following diet cycling plans, the fact is that most people will not follow such a plan indefinitely. Good nutrition isn’t just about planning to eat the “correct” proportions of nutrients but making sustainable habits that lead to making good dietary decisions. [/li][li]While it isn’t the fault of Atkins per say, the focus on increasing protein and fat, and reducing carbs has led the popular “science” media to emphasize these without the accompanying recommendations on fruits and veggies and nutritional supplements, the result being people wolfing down a double cheeseburger between two pieces of lettuce and patting themselves on the back for being “healthy”. :rolleyes: While I was dive instructing (and despite the serious safety risks of high body fat in breathing compressed air the ranks of recreational divers are swelling–snark–with people who are dangerously obese) I’d routinely see people hitting the galley in the morning and eating plate after plate of eggs, bacon, sausage, ham, et cetera and decrying fruit and toast. Brilliant.[/li][li]Most people I’ve seen on these diets, even those claiming to follow Atkins, simply do not eat the recommended amount of vegetables, or eat them in forms that are nutritionally vacuous. (No, deep fried zucchini is not healthy.) While eating the recommended amount of fruits and veggies per Atkins will probably give you enough carbs to be marginally healthy, skipping these and eating more protein puts you outside the realm of healthy nutrition.[/ul] [/li]
The long-term effects of Atkins-style diets aren’t known, but it is accuarially established that cultures which have diets high in meat and saturated fats tend to have more chronic health problems. On the other hand, the longevity-demonstrating cultures in many parts of Southeast Asia, for which the traditional cuisine has been primarily grains and starches, raw or lightly sauteed vegetables, and very modest amounts low-fat protein (primarily fish and fowl) have enjoyed good health, so those arguing that Atkins “works” probably need to level greater consideration on the long-term benefits and hazards of a high protein, high fat diet.
The problem with “carbs” isn’t that they’re bad but that people eat way to much simple sugars, spiking their insulin levels and enhancing their appetite beyond that which is nutritionally necessary. When you have a Coke with dinner, your body thinks it’s hit the jackpot (look, sugar!) and tells you to eat more, MORE, MORE!!!. When I stopped drinking sugar drinks and eating sweats, my appetite went way down, and even when I get cravings they’re are the unmanagable “I must eat or I’ll pass out now!”-style hunger. The trick of a healthy, sustainable diet isn’t to control this amount of cholesterol or that reaction, or to cycle your glycolgen levels to match the phases of the moon or whatever, but to eat an amount of calories appropriate to your level of activity in a healthy proportion.
Worse yet is what I’ve come to term as “Atkins Assholism”; the obnoxious shits that turn on you and decry your (healthy) dietary choices because they don’t conform to their idiotic understanding of nutrition. Now that all the bowling-ball paunches at work are on Atkins I can’t hear enough about it when I eat a sandwich *with bread!**, and all catering and restaurant meet-ups have to be someplace that serves high fat, high protein (hello, Pollo Loco, the home of grease-glazed chicken) which no possibility of running into any of those nasty carbohydrates. I don’t go about spontaneously spouting off about the detriments of low-carb diets (other than to roll my eyes when a program manager who will remain anonymous peels and eats the cheese from his pizza 'cause he’s on “The Atkins Diet”…yeah, you’ve read the literature, haven’t you Big Boy?) so telling me that a perfectly healthy sandwich is bad generally makes me want to shove a 1lb brick of genuine lard down the complainant’s gullet.
I tell you what, Campion. Let’s start a diet called the Whisky Diet; we’ll get the backing of various distillers to promote it. It’s something like this:
[ul][li]12 oz of Black Bush Irish Whisky/Maker’s Mark/Johnny Walker Black[/li][li]2 bags of Corn Nuts[/li][li]8 oz of salted pretzels[/li][li]1 gyro/burrito/medium frozen pizza, to be consumed immediately before going to bed[/li][li]1 “Red-eye” consisting of tomato juice, Red Bull, 2 raw egg yolks, and a shot of Gold. [/ul] [/li]Repeat as necessary until weight reduction is achieved or liver function is zero.
I’m reluctant to weigh in on the needle issue but…look, we understand the dangerous nature of the malady here, but recognize that many people are queasy about needles and others become nauseous, to the point of passing out, at the sight of blood. Due to concerns about blood-bourne pathogens having unbarriered blood in a dining area may actually be in violation of health regulations and the restaurant in question could be subject to fines and liability, not to mention the potential health risk should the blood somehow get splattered (and from Campion’s description the injectee in question doesn’t seem to have followed hygenic procedures.) Certainly, you may offend or disgust clientele who will not return to the restaurant in question; I know I’d certainly be reluctant to do so. (And hey, Campion which place was this, anyway? )
If not for consideration of your fellow dinners, at least demonstrate some awareness of your host and their need to keep a clean and appealing dining environment, and if the bathroom is too dirty to shoot up then ask your server if there is someplace else–the manager’s office or somesuch–where you can shoot in relative privacy. I suspect most restaurants, McDonald’s excluded, would much rather provide this minimal amount of consideration rather than to have someone injecting themselves in front of other customers.
to quote a tech buddie of mine, RTFM. Read the book. You can eat a lot of veggies on the diet…I get 10 servings of veggies a day, just the ‘good’ veggies that are lower carb and higher fiber [like spinach frex, I adore spinach=)] I eat pretty much anything that anybody else would eat, just avoiding refined starches, and starches like potato, corn, pea/legumes. Of course I still refuse to eat okra, eggplant, zucchini and spaghetti squash but since I never ate them before, I dont see a reason to eat them now=) IF you manage to actually follow the diet correctly, you don’t have lack of fiber issues…I get more fiber in my diet than pretty much anybody who doesnt suppliment AND juices [if they ate the whole damned thing they would get the fiber they have to add back in, so why not just eat the freaking fruit to start with…]
Atkins works. Two Studies- in the NEJoM no less- have shown that it works better than a low fat diet for wieght loss- and with no bad effects on health. True- Atkins is hard to stay on- but so are other diets. Most dudes drop off any diet after 6 months- or even less. However- Campion- if your date was having bowel problems- that’s her fault, not Atkins. Atkins reccomends plenty of salads- in fact one name for the diet is 'the steak and salad diet". And Futile Gesture- although I agree that 'eating less" is certainly part of the Atkins diet- neither study mentioned that Atkins “doesn’t work as advertised.”- that’s your opinion, not the result of any study- AFAIK.
WARNING MILD HIJACK- And- the “vegsoc” doesn’t get to define what “vegetarian” means for dudes who say they are vegetarians. In fact- no one does (well for some their church does, and that’s the whole point). Commonly, for decades- someone eating fish as their only “meat” were indeed considered 'vegetarians" because of the religious definition of what was “meat”- which didn’t include fish. There are those who are “vegetarians” for religious reasons, and their religions define fish as “not meat”- and thus for the purpose of their reason for being “vegetarian”- eating fish is fine.
Of course- one could say that: “vegetarians eat only vegetables by the scientific definition of vegetable”- but you’d be wrong. All Vegetarians eat food that is not vegetable in nature: Minerals (salt), Fungi (mushrooms), bacteria (cheese, tofu, etc), and (not on purpose but still whether you like it or not) insects, worms and other non-backbone possessing animals.
Bolding mine… Sorry, but I can’t let it go. Atkins is not a “no-carb” diet or way of eating. It’s low-carb, yes, but certainly not “no-carb.” You do consume carbohydrates on Atkins. That’s another huge misconception about it; that somehow you don’t eat any carbs at all. I mentioned that in another thread just like this one - a coworker constantly commented on how I was doing Atkins, and how she couldn’t understand how I could get by eating “no carbs at all!” I had explained to her several times that that’s not it at all, but she never did get it.
Dude, not drinking while trying to lose weight isn’t an “invention” of Atkins. Google “Alcohol and weight loss” and you will find lots and lots of info on how alcohol has negative effects on metabolism.
Most liquors are carb-free. Beers are not, but there are good choices out there. Mixed drinks (including anything with non-diet tonic) have sugar in them. Is this news to you?
Is that the best you can come up with? “It makes your breath stink, you can’t eat sushi, and you can’t drink”? Why don’t you go ahead and bash other popular diets and say stuff like “they can’t have salad dressing” “they count every single fucking calorie” and “they can’t drink.”
Go complain about something you know about, don’t just make shit up.
My husband was in the gym the other day getting a basic physical fitness test from one of the employees (insurance requirement by the gym, so if someone drops dead, they can say it’s not their fault). The employee asked what sort of diet he was on, and he just gave a vague, “I’m cutting out sugars and stuff like that.” Her response, “Oh, at least you’re not on one of those low carb diets. Any diet where you can’t eat broccoli isn’t a good diet.” He was so fed up at that point, he didn’t even waste his breath correcting her.
That pisses me off, the misconceptions about the diet. In the last two weeks alone, we’ve eaten a three-pound bag of broccoli (total, between the two of us). That’s only the broccoli; as vegetables go we’re not even counting the red bell peppers, the lettuce, cucumbers, avocadoes, tomatoes, green beans, cabbage, cauliflower and probably some others I’m forgetting right now. We buy the majority of our salad vegetables at CostCo, in bulk.
I like the fact that I enjoy vegetables now, can’t stand the taste of sugar, and no longer have those uncontrollable cravings for carb-laden foods that I used to have.
Attempting low carb eating led to one very unpleasant day at work.
But then my adopted home is crap where food is concerned. The last time I had a curry that tasted good or bread that was fresh was when I went to my true home of England.
I’m losing weight through sheer lack of anything worth eating lots of.
It’s fine to have an opinion. My opinion of your opinion is that only a selfish fuck would maintain such an opinion. What is unsanitary about a person giving themself an injection? As long as they are disposing of the hypodermic needle appropriately, there’s no problem.
As to my issues - well, I suppose I will always have an issue with some numbnuts butting into someone else’s business and then overreacting to it.
x-ray vision, just where would you have us step to? How far from the table would be “couth” enough for you? As to your comment about my son’s and my comfort - yeah, as long as we are not actively disrupting your day, you can shut the fuck up and look somewhere else.
But perhaps you should avoid looking at people who make you feel icky.
spooje, it’s great that you’re discreet. As I said, we make no announcement that we are about to managing my son’s diabetes. We don’t stand up on the table. I’ll be goddamned however, if anyone is going to add to the difficulties that my little boy already faces because they feel “icky.” Such folks are, well, pretty low in my book, and not much worth worrying about. Perhaps, campion, you should pony up the dough to go to nice restaurants where they don’t let distasteful people in.
Atkins mostly just tricks people into snacking less, since it’s easy to pull out a bag of chips or a bagel, but most people are too lazy to grill up a steak for a snack.
Not sure what you mean here. I follow Atkins, and I haven’t died (yet). I lost about 80 pounds on it, too. I eat plenty of vegetables and fruit, and never have any plumbing problems.
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