Regardless of what the gov will tell you making your own atomic bomb isn’t exactly the same technological feat that is was in the 1940s. IF I had the uranium or plutonium I could build my own if I felt like it.
In Tom Clancy’s book “The Sum of All Fears” terrorists do exactly that. They build their own and blow up Denver, CO. They are also making a movie based on this book.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010817.html
Another reason why there wasn’t a crater is that the fireball didn’t actually strike the earth. A meteor that strikes the atmosphere at a shallow angle can pass right by the surface but the immense heat and shock can cause the light, the noise, and even the seismic effect. The Tunguska event in Siberia in 1908 was heard over half the planet but no crater was found there either, only row upon row of fallen trees radiating from a common center.
stevehaddock said
. How do you know that it was a fireball rather than an earthquake?
I was in Australia during this time and I am quite familiar with this story. I even corresponded with Harry on several occasions about his research, too.
Where Cecil unfortunately errs in his comment is a blind assumption that his correspondence with the Australian government is accurate. I can cite numerous examples where my interactions with the Australian government at all levels were ones of lies, deceit and subterfuge by government officials. This was a matter of course. Unless you have lived in that country for an extended period an American frame of reference will lead you astray. The political structure of Oz is very different than that of America, and respect for government honesty does not exist in Oz.
That area of Western Australia is desolate, harsh and devoid of anything comparable to what an American can comprehend. It is so far removed from population centers and transportation lines that it is so easy to hide something by just leaving it out in the open. There is no one close by to stumble across it. Among other things, that is why there are American and Australian military research sites there.
The Australian continent sits in the middle of the Australian plate. Generally speaking, equarthquakes are rare in Australia, with the majority of them occurring along well-known fault lines, as few as they may be. That area of Western Australia is devoid of natural earthquake activity to the point that records indicate any seismic activity in the last 10,000 years must either be man-made or extra-terrestrial (comets, meteorites, etc.) in origin. That there have been several seismic events there at more than random intervals should preclude anything of natural origin much of the time.
If you carry the story further when considering the lights in the sky, these, too, have been quite numerous all over Australia. I can remember one incident personally where the news media broadcast the alleged track of a shooting star. It was caught on tape by several observers and broadcast nation-wide. There was only one problem with it. When the raw footage was viewed showing ground structures (as a point of reference), the fireball was too slow to be that of a shooting star. It also does not fit with known aircraft, either.
I am not completely convinced of Harry’s theories, however, they are more plausible than any goverment opinions about the lights in the sky and seismic events occuring in a geologically stable, but desolate area.
Clive D.N.Collins ,speaking for the scientists, said
Duckster, speaking for Harry said
.
You mean, good old Clive was lying?
Duckster You said
What American military research sites are there? Where do you get your information concerning this?
There are a considerable number of US military sites within Australia beyond what is generally known. They are common knowledge to locals (naturally!) but beyond that very little of the details are available through normal means. I’m sure you’ve heard of Pine Gap, probably less with Nurrungar (now gone) and I doubt Northwest Cape means anything to you. Beyond that, other sites are meaningless because they just never make it into the US media spotlight. In addition, there are several brand-new Australian bases (within the last five years) which are grossly overbuilt for use by the ADF (Australian Defence Forces) alone. That’s because they were built with Australian and American defense funds for future potential use.
I have been to several, and have friends who have been to others. The American-Oz military alliance is long-standing, deep and strong.
As I said in my original post, unless you’ve been there for an extended time, you lack the frame of reference to completely understand. I’m sorry this sounds vague. It’s about as equivalent as defining colors to someone who has been blind since birth – there is no common point of reference.
Duckster, I’m interested to know the background for the formation of your views. Are you Australian and lived here all your life? Are you American and been to Australia? I’ve never felt Australia was anymore secretive or conspiracy prone than Ameri ca and wonder what you base this view on. Also, the bases you refer to are tracking and communications sites. Not for research. I get the feeling you may have been alluding to some kind of special aircraft being developed at these research sites you are r efering to. Do you believe the Americans are testing and developing special aircraft that could account for the events discussed here?ts
Cleveland’s in the middle of the North American plate, but I’ve lived through at least three quakes of magnitude 5 or higher. I don’t think that there’s any spot on the planet where a magnitude 3.6 would be considered extraordinary.
Furthermore, the folks saying it was an earthquake are not in any way affiliated with the government of Austrailia or of the U. S. They’re seismologists, basing their professional opinion on geologic data. It’s very difficult to cover up anything in the sciences; everyone has access to the same raw data, and you can’t get every scientist on the planet into a conspiracy.
And Duckster, we Americans do understand what you’re talking about. There’s places here which are every bit as barren. Come up to visit Montana or the Dakotas sometime.
Here are a few other scientific tidbits that take some of the mystery out of this.
A 3.9 earthquake is very little to write home about. If you’ve been through a 5 on the Richter scale, a 3.9 is less than 1/10th the power. You might have slept through it.
However, I don’t think earthquakes are known for producing heat and light. Sure volcanos are, but volcanos only appear right on active plate boundaries. Also, you would see a smoke plume from hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away. Etna’s recent eruption could be seen from space.
This is why I think a fireball is more likely. In an isolated area, you would get a big bang, a shock, a lot of light, but very little other evidence.
I should have said that there is one big piece of evidence that you can look for in an atomic blast, and that’s radiation. Bombs are very dirty and if one were released in the atmosphere, it would be obvious to a trained observer. The U.S. and even Russia can detect an above ground nuclear explosion from space and as various treaties prohibit this, there would be a lot of explaining to do. However, Australia is not a nuclear power and it is unlikely that they would allow a nuclear power to test bombs on their soil - the political backlash would be too great.
As for government secrecy, anyone who thinks that the American goverment is more open should read newly declassified documents about the U.S. Project Blue Book. Many “UFOs” in the 1950s and 1960s were actually U.S. army projects. The famous Roswell incident was actually a baloon that was designed to track radioactive fallout from Russian bomb tests. When it crashed in Roswell, the goverment didn’t come out and say that, it claimed it was a weather baloon, which it clearly wasn’t. Many UFO reports could clearly be linked to U2 spy planes, which are shiny and fly so high they catch light coming over the horizon after sunset and before sunrise. Those planes weren’t supposed to be spying on the USSR, so the Air Force called them “atmospheric phenomena” rather than high altitude spy planes.
Been to both many, many times. Favorite haunts of mine.
But the area in question in Western Australia is about as big as Alaska.
In reverse order …
No, I do not believe the USA is using Australia for widespread testing and development of special aircraft. There would be considerable overhead that you just cannot hide, even in Oz. Then there’s the distance between such a testing center and apparent home bases at Edwards or even Groom Lake. However, this is not to say that the US would not use Australia for a staging site. The recent Global Hawk flight to Australia and back is a case in point.
Also, too, Australia has a highly developed high-tech and research industry for itself. The DSTO is world famous in the correct circles and their contributions to US Defense interests are never overlooked. Remember that the next time you fly (black boxes), copy something (photocopier) or make a sandwich (vegemite).
While the known US sites in Oz are publicly known as tracking and communications sites, this does not preclude their use for other purposes. Have you ever been to any of the bases in Oz? If a base is used just for tracking and communications, why do US military aircraft of selected styles and sizes regularly use a nearby jetport with great frequency? Surely if they are used to “hand carry” tapes and disk of communications data why are some of those planes so damn big?
I’m a born and raised American. I’ve also had the opportunity to travel and live in Oz for an extended period of time, including travelling all over that country. My work and play exposed me to many things and many people, something my insatiable curioisty enjoys.
Finally, don’t assume the cultural and political aspects of the two countries are the same, even though both are allies and speak relatively the same language. A cursory visit to Australia isn’t good enough. Once you live there for an extended period, become accepted and trusted by Aussies does one truly appreciate the pronounced differences between the two countries – good and bad.
Mysterious fireballs, kugelblitzen and flashes of light are often associated with earthquakes. This phenomenon has not been explained, and might conceivably be just a myth (earthquake survivors aren’t the most reliable of witnesses), but it’s a possible explanation for the fireball described (which doesn’t sound like an atomic bomb blast or a meteor impact to me).
You are correct.
The problem arises when a considerable number of eyewitnesses observe the fireball (and with other instances, several fireballs) transverse their line of sight across the sky followed by an explosion.
Quick hint: Most Americans who have heard of Vegemite regard it with loathing, and would never dream of voluntarily putting it on a sandwich. Myself, I’ve never had it. It’s almost impossible to get in the States.
For the cargo planes, I think that the simplest explanation is food and other such supplies. There’s people stationed at these installations, right? They’ve got to eat just like everybody else, and if they’re as remote as you say, then it’s probably cheapest to send everything in by air.
It’s comforting to know that conspiracy theory paranoia manages to infect even those “down under”. Area 51 enthusiasts would be right at home.
One can always choose to disbelieve what information one receives, from others or from one’s own senses. Fortunately, most people rely upon rational review of available data and, when needed, do the appropriate mental shrug articulated by Uncle Cecil at the end of his article.
Vegemite is great stuff. High in Vitamin B complex and iron, it’s derived as a waste product in beer making. However, in all the years I was in Oz, I never acquired a taste for it. It is very salty and looks more to grace an axle in need of a good grease job rather than put it on a sandwich. 
And yes, I can agree that shipping things in by air is probably the most cost-effective. But I suggest you re-read my post on this particular point. If you are familiar with military cargo aircraft, you might have questioned my comment that some of the planes are “so damn big.” Would you like it spelled out?
One good reason: Range. Smaller USAF aircraft do not have the range to “one-hop” from Austrailia to CONUS or even, in some cases, Hawaii. The Lockheed C-130 is the smallest cargo plane equipped for in-flight refueling in USAF inventory. However, it would be an agonizingly long flight from western Oz to North America at turboprop speeds. The Lockheed C-141B is the real workhorse of the USAF and is quite plentiful compared to all smaller types except the HerkyBird.
That is a big if. Weapons grade material is really tough to produce. You either have to undergo the technology and power intensive enrichment route (to get U[sub]235[/sub] the fissile component of Uranium). Or chemically separate the plutonium from spent fuel (which also requires a lot of expensive know-how and specialized equipment).
Theft would probably be both easier and cheaper but still very difficult. In the US, deadly force is authorized in the protection of special nuclear material. Accountability of said material is meticulously maintained to a fraction of a gram (both for safety and security). Other countries would probably be easier (the former Soviet Union is the favorite in doomsday scenarios) but still hardly a walk in the park.
[Minor Nitpick]
Australia is a nuclear power in that they have functioning reactors. They do not however have any nuclear power plants and are certainly not a declared or suspected weapons state.
[/Minor Nitpick]
(edited to fix vB coding)
[Edited by Arnold Winkelried on 08-20-2001 at 11:34 AM]
I suggest you spend some time researching this.
Australia has one known nuclear reactor, (Lucas Heights) used for teaching and medical purposes. It it also a signatory to the ANZUS treaty, meaning the country may very well have US-owned nuclear weapons transiting through the country, or even being stored there.
There have been at least a dozen nuclear tests in Australia, all by the British government in the 1950s. The fallout (pun intended) continues to this day with revelations of Australian human test subjects not being told of the details of such tests. There are also confirmed reports of human body parts of dead Australians being shipped to the USA and the UK for testing of trace radioactivity. This report is less than six months old and includes adults as well as children.
Think C5A Galaxy.