Wow. Gotta love it. A cyclist makes a legitimate complaint about dangerous actions by cars & pedestrians and every cycle-hating bigot in the SDMB races in to complain about dangerous actions done by cyclists. As if every cyclists is responsible for the riding behavior of every other cyclist.
There’s 3-4 car antic threads on the SDMB. Maybe I should go into them and tell them to stop whining because cars do illegal stuff too, and therefore they are responsible for those driver’s actions.
On my ride home yesterday I had the following happen:
A car passed me within inches. Effectively buzzing me. The driver then blew two stop signs (so don’t tell me drivers don’t do that).
Another car passed me on a two way street by driving into oncoming traffic (that he could see) and then realized his car didn’t have enough power he (Or she, couldn’t tell) dove back into my lane while I was still in it. Fortunately, I was able to anticipate this but I had to brake because of a driver’s selfishness and neglect.
A was crossing at a light and the cars turning left decided that I didn’t have the right-of-way because I was going straight or they decided could pretend I wasn’t there.
I could also mention the road I was crossing on the MUT where the drivers had a red turning light so they don’t run over cyclists and joggers. Six cars blasted their horns but I suppose I couldn’t count that because the driver in front did the right thing and stayed put, unlike 5 out of 6 drivers who think that red light is optional.
All of these things happened while I was riding legally. All of them could have killed me. All of them were the actions of negligent drivers. Are SDMB but somehow while I and every other cyclist are responsible for the cyclists who don’t walk their bike across intersections to some people’s satisfaction. But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good hate-on?
In fairness, in the past couple of years I have noticed it isn’t just bikes who are singled out in this manner: tell someone you are a truck driver and the car driver may harangue you for several minutes about some truck driver who cut them off, etc. as if every truck driver is responsible for the actions of every other truck driver.
I have no idea what it is like where you live, but here it is not at all common to see cars run red lights or stop signs. A rolling stop or pushing the limits of a yellow, sure, but not just blithely driving through. I can’t remember ever seeing a car deliberately drive down a one way street. Once in a while someone will make a mistake and then see oncoming traffic, pull over, and turn around. But not just assume the laws don’t apply to them and continue on.
About ten years ago I saw a car drive through a stop sign without slowing or stopping and I called 911 to report it. I wish cyclists would do the same for their fellow riders. Of course it’s tough since they don’t have licence plates. Maybe that’s where we should start.
It does happen. There are intersections I fear to cross at as a pedestrian because the cars simply do not stop.
Not to mention the number of times cars have unlawfully done right-turn-on-red where it was marked illegally or where they did not have the right of way. I’ve been hit by drivers doing this.
I have seen plenty of cars go the wrong way down the one-way streets. I’ve seen it done simply because they didn’t want to circle around to a parking space, etc. I’ve also seen it done by mistake. Hell, a few days ago I had to pause while crossing an intersection because the car making a turn decided he wanted a parking space that was the wrong way down a one-way street and started reversing through the intersection. I doubt this kind of crap is unique to my hometown and never, ever happens in Portland.
I don’t villainize drivers for the actions of these drivers who are either lazy douchebags or error-prone. So why am I held responsible for everyone on a bike who rides the wrong way?
When the consequences of bikes running stop signs or red lights becomes as dangerous as cars doing the same it might be worth it to do so. As it is, I can’t really get all 'OMG! gotta regulate ‘em!!!’
And if has been ten years since you’ve seen a car go through a red light or stop sign, you haven’t been paying attention.
That is not what I am saying. Try reading for comprehension
The person I was arguing with was saying ‘cars do not do ‘x’’. One of my counter points is that yes they certainly do.
That is not by any stretch of the imagination saying it is ok for bikes to break the law.
Bike riders should obey the law. Many of us do. But that doesn’t stop bigots like you and fumster from painting us all with the same brush. So I call you out on that.
I’m sure it sometimes happens in Portland, I just have very rarely seen it. As I said, the last car I saw totally blow a stop sign - not just do a Massachusetts stop - was years ago. I see it every single day with bicyclists. I think your comment about the danger of cars vs bikes ignoring laws pretty much sums it up. Too many bicyclists think they can decide what laws to follow because their vehicle doesn’t way 2,000 lbs.
And BTW, fuck you for calling me a bigot. I never said, and I don’t believe, that all cyclists do this, not even a majority. But enough of them do to create a danger to themselves and others and to create hostility to bicycles. If there are always a few threads in SDMB about this, maybe there is a reason.
{Shrugs} Eh, what can you do. You see the vast majority of a group being assholes, you start to not really care if they’re all assholes or not. Okay, fine, if you’re a cyclist who isn’t an asshole, good for you. I’m very happy for you and the people you cycle around.
It certainly does happen, more often than you might realize. I live in the city proper and it is a frequent enough and the threat is bad. More to the point I seriously doubt any city would put in red-light cameras if there weren’t any problems with cars running red lights.
As for cyclists deciding which laws they will obey - we can play this game all day. Take another dangerous issue: driving while texting or on the cell phone. Its well established how utterly dangerous this activity is and yet in any group of cars I encounter I can almost be assured that someone is going to be texting/chatting. I have seen cyclists riding while chatting on the phone, but it is a much, much rarer activity. Is this not an example of drivers selectively obeying laws, or is it unfair if I point that out somehow?
You realize that is a definition of bigotry? That law abiding folks of a group are held responsible for the actions of the non-law abiding members of that same group? I can understand bitching about the wrongful actions of cyclists to a degree, but these threads devolve into hate-fests. Your use of the term ‘eco-warrior’ pretty much seals it.
This thread was started as a legitimate complaint (albeit one that could have been written more clearly) about dangerous actions taken by drivers and pedestrians who fail to account for cyclists’ speed. It quickly devolved into a pile-on on cyclists with folks like Princhester being accused of riding on sidewalks and endangering pedestrians.
In actuary terms, it’s probably far more useful to have more stringent driving regulations than cycling ones, for the simple reason that cyclists rarely, if ever, kill anyone in collisions (amenable to disproof of course). In comparison, 32000 people were killed in automotive accidents in 2010.
The issue is, of course, whether the costs of stricter laws (in terms of rates of compliance, ease of prosecution, reduced productivity) would outweigh the benefits of fewer dead Americans. A lot more hours are expended by US citizens driving than cycling.
You ain’t gettin’ it. I’m not saying and have never said that “it’s okay when cyclists do it”. The point is if you actually disliked cyclists because some of them break laws, you would dislike motorists as much or more since they are just as non-law abiding and far more dangerous into the bargain. You aren’t even attempting to deny that motorists continually speed, use cell phones and text etc etc. You actually dislike cyclists because you are a bigot. If your beliefs were rational, you would dislike motorists just as much.
I think you are being more than a little blind to motorists faults, as **Mr Misk **has pointed out. I also find it instructive that you readily admit that you do actually know that motorists habitually break the law at stop signs and traffic lights, but you just blow that off as not counting for some reason. A “rolling stop” is an oxymoron. Rolling through a stop sign is illegal. Period. It depends on jurisdiction, but most places I know about “pushing the limits” of a yellow is also illegal.
Please, please now say that neither of these things count because they aren’t very serious. If you do I will use your hypocrisy to rip you a new one. Can you see why or are you too one-eyed? I’ll give you some clues. A couple of times now you have said that cyclists think they can decide what laws to follow because they don’t weigh 2000lbs, or that cyclists can do whatever the fuck they want because of the physics of being on a bike.
What the hell do you think a motorist is thinking when he/she “merely” rolls through a stop sign or drives at 5mph above the limit or just makes a quick call on their cell or sends a quick text or doesn’t indicate? All of these things are flat out illegal, and all of them are routine for motorists. Why do motorists blatantly do these things? Because they perceive these infringements as being minor and unlikely to injury anyone. Just like the cyclist who does illegal things because they figure the same.
By the way you are wrong if you think no one has noticed that you are concentrating on denying certain accusations (like that motorists roll through stops) while carefully attempting to pretend that other accusations like that motorists habitually speed and use cells while driving etc don’t exist. You can put your head in the sand but it won’t make the accusations go away.
Actually what caused me to call you out was when you said back at post #39:
[QUOTE=fumster]
…the percentage of asshole bike riders is waay more than that of asshole drivers.
[/QUOTE]
Since you seem to consider breaking traffic laws to make one an asshole, you are just blatantly wrong. I could put a speed gun on any free flowing road near me and the whole damn stream of motor traffic would be 5kmh or more over the limit. Every single one.