So what happened?
Did you stop in time?
Did you swerve around them?
Did you smack into them?
Was there any verbal utterance from the three of you?
To me there is a qualitative difference between driving 5 MPH over the limit on the highway and driving 40 MPH in a school zone, or pushing the limits of a yellow light and barreling through an intersection, or doing a rolling stop and just ignoring a stop sign. I also think there is a difference between a bike slowing down at a stop sign to check traffic in all directions and just ignoring it altogether. Riding the wrong way down a one-way street for several blocks, or riding on the sidewalk downtown are just foolish. They are not pushing the limits, they are defying the expected behavior of vehicles. I just don’t expect to be constantly scanning the other direction when I’m pulling out into a one-way street. When I turn I check the bike lane for fast moving bikes and the sidewalk for slow moving pedestrians, but I don’t expect to all of a sudden see a bike barrel down the sidewalk and scoot across the crosswalk. Cyclists have to decide if they are toys on the sidewalk or vehicles on the road. If they are the latter then they need to behave in a predictable manner. What’s the sense in building bike lanes and turn boxes if cyclists are too lazy to move over one block so they can ride the right direction down the street? Ultimately it will hurt the cyclists worse than the drivers if public support for bike lanes goes away.
But here is a plea to cyclists: put lights on you bike if you ride at night. If you can’t bear to do that at least don’t wear dark clothes. Don’t ride on the sidewalks downtown and especially don’t ride through crosswalks. Ride in the direction of traffic. At least slow down to a crawl at stop signs and yield to pedestrians in crosswalks. It’s not a lot to ask.
fumster writes about a place where the self-centered / hipster/ poor-excuse-for-a-hippie / me-first-and-only me cyclist attitude reigns supreme. I can personally attest to much of fumster’s claims. Hell, I’ve been in a marked crosswalk (with other peds), with the walk light in my favor, only to risk life and limb as another psycho cyclist ignores all the traffic signals and barrels through. Not once, but several times.
With the rainy season about to start maybe I need to carry more than a pocket umbrella now. I don’t often carry a bigger umbrella so I don’t accidentally swing my arms and poke someone when it’s closed. OTOH, when crossing the street where I have the legal right-of-way, that closed umbrella might accidentally get caught in the spokes of a psycho cyclist ignoring the law, again …
“Oh, sorry, bro. Didn’t see you. Have a nice day.”
There is, yes. But you are once again ignoring the fact that motorists commit these acts, even in your own city. Or does Portland have red-light cameras because they like the flashing lights they make? You seem to be very fond of mitigating or handwaving away the antics of drivers so you can demonize cyclists.
Is this the tactic you are going to take? Because frankly there is no doper here who has ever stood the test of time who thinks either of these things are acceptable cyclist behavior. On the other hand, you have studiously put up your blinders to everyday antics of drivers in your efforts to villainize cyclists.
Wah. wah. wah. Some cyclists misbehave so we should PUNISH THEM ALL. Take away their bike lanes!!!
Please. Start being a real part of the solution instead of a fucking concern troll.
I have a high powered beam on my light, last year I got damn near left hooked despite having both this and the right-of-way on a supremely well light intersection at nighttime. The driver bitched at me that I should ‘wear brighter clothes’.
More recently, another driver complained that my light was ‘too bright’.
I get grumpy at cyclists who have no lights & dark clothes as well, but I don’t assume that all cyclists do it with open-ended accusatory please like yours.
Here’s a plea to motorists: please stop driving drunk. please stop texting and driving in traffic. Its not a lot to ask.
You’ll find no pity on the SDMB for cyclists who ride the wrong way or on sidewalks. But you will find scorn for those who point out these antics and try to paint all cyclists with that brush.
I guess you just need to come to Portland and see for yourself.
I wait for traffic lights when they will turn green. There are sensor triggered lights that will not trigger from a bicycle, and these I “run” after stopping and waiting for a wide hole in cross traffic. This is legal per the traffic code, because the light is malfunctioning.
I am sure that there are bicyclists that “just ignore” stop signs, but that is not what I practice and see. Those that DO completely ignore stop signs will soon be removed from consideration. The usual case isthat bicyclists treat them as “yield” signs absent conflict with other traffic, and they do this both to conserve momentum AND because it is safer.
There are a few enlightened municipalities that have even made it legal for bicyclists to “run” stop signs. Because when done with care (treating it as a Yield sign, ready and able to stop if need be) it is significantly safer.
How so?
Due to limited acceleration, maintaining a few MPH on entering the intersection results in the cyclist spending 1/2 to 1/3 as much time in the intersection. Because a huge number of accidents happen in intersections, this alone lowers the risk.
Many automobile drivers have trouble treating bicycles as traffic, especially at four way stops. It is very common for motorists to yield to a bicycle on their left, (assumes US, drive on the right) resulting in a delay for both, and confusion and potential problems if there is other traffic at the intersection. Worse, other drivers will fail to yield to the bicycle stopped on their right, and react aggressively when the cyclist takes his turn.
It is even fairly common for some motorists to stop and yield to bicycles when only the bicycle has a stop sign. The result is a delay for both, as the car would have been beyond the intersection in less time than was required for the cyclist to realize what the motorist was doing. One author refers to these drivers as “annoying Samaritans.”*
It is often possible for a cyclist to avoid these problems by clearing the intersection before approaching car traffic arrives. This is often what car drivers are complaining about when they say cyclists are ignoring stop signs. Further, it is common for motorists to have trouble estimating the speed of a bicycle. Bicycles “running” a stop sign are typically doing perhaps 5 mph, virtually crawling, and no faster than motorists who practice a “rolling stop”.
By far, the most common reason for death and injury to cyclists is motorists failing to see them, not cyclists ignoring stop signs. In many cases, the requirement to come to a complete stop makes the cyclist depend on the motorist to see him in order to avoid hitting him. By “running” the stop sign, the cyclist can often prevent any conflict with the car, regardless the drivers inattention or carelessness.
Further, I often don’t ride way over to the right. Where there is not room to safely pass, I am not required to do so, nor where there is more than one lane. At the far right, I am less visible to cross traffic, left turners, and pedestrians, I am also vulnerable to door openings, and collect significantly more sharp objects in my tires. With zero traffic approaching, you are still annoyed to have to use part of the oncoming lane to pass me. Why is that?
I may take the lane as we approach traffic stopped at a signal. You do realize you are going to have to stop regardless I am in front of you or not, right? Oh, I do this so that the people who will be turning right (but can’t be arsed to signal) don’t hit me. I’ll move over as we cross the intersection and you will be slowed not at all, but you will still be angry. Because getting behind the wheel turns thinking adults into two-year-olds.
*
Beyond slowing both the motorist and the bicycle, this counterproductive politeness has a more serious downside: The motorist is deciding for the bicyclist when it is safe to proceed. This requires that the bicyclist trust the motorist, while also looking out for traffic that is not part of the bargain instigated by the “annoying Samaritan.” Frequently other drivers are angered by the situation, and that anger is usually directed at the bicyclist rather than the actual source of the problem.
In an extreme case I have had someone stop so that I could cross a busy street, waving me through…oblivious to the fact that two parallel lanes were not stopped, with drivers changing lanes to avoid the “samaritan.” In fact, this caused traffic to slow and stack up, which eliminated many holes that would have allowed me to cross.
OP should wear one of these while riding. People are conditioned to make way for emergency vehicles.
There was one incident in DC in which a bicyclist struck & killed a girl. I thought I posted about that but search isn’t cooperating.
Ah yes, the magical island of Portland, where every cyclist disobeys every law, killing hundreds of drivers and pedestrians every year. Cars obey all the laws and never, ever do anything that would endanger the evil cyclists, law-abiding drivers, or the poor pedestrians. :rolleyes:
It certainly happens. But it is rare. To give you an idea how rare it is when a cyclist hit and killed a pedestrian in Atlanta it made the scroll on CNN.
By comparison, 15 pedestrians killed by drivers in one month in NYC alone.
Been there.
Ridden a bike there.
Sorry but you fail.
Shall I point you to the local Home Depot where you can buy a wide brush? All I’m saying is based on personal experience and observation, Portland has an awful lot of cyclists who disregard traffic laws, compared to other locations I’ve lived in, including bicycle-friendly locations. Even Madison’s cyclists are much better behaved than Portland.
Can’t help you with the car drivers though. They all are terrible here. You don’t hear about the bodies, though. Dumping them in the Columbia or the Willamette hides them. Those they aren’t dumped are taken care of by the Grimm residents around here.
Ya think? But so what? You honestly think that it is relevant to this debate that motorists could do illegal things that are more dangerous than the illegal things they already do? Only a page back you were berating cyclists for thinking that the mere fact that the physics means that what they do isn’t so dangerous is no excuse for their lawlessness. I was kind enough to point out to you that you needed to be careful not to attempt the argument that the illegal things motorists do are excusable because they aren’t so dangerous, or I would accuse you of hypocrisy. I laid out where the trap was, put a giant neon sign pointing to it, and you just blundered right in anyway. I’d rip you a new one as I said I would do, but frankly I find arguing with evident airheads tedious, so I don’t think I’ll bother.