Well, how about when the offenses are mutually exclusive? There are those who are offended by “Merry Christmas” and there are those who are offended by “Happy Holidays”. Are they both right? Are both offensive? I mean, there are a lot of people on both sides, so I should respect their offense, right? Should I say neither greeting? Would my silence be offensive to a certain percentage of both groups, and therefore be even worse?
Or, I can make the correct conclusion that the vast majority of those offended by either statement are pretending to be offended, and the rest who are actually offended (for realsies) are simply wrong.
Don’t know or care about right. They might well be both offended. Why assume either side is lying about their offense?
Obviously, if people are offended by both, both can be said to be offensive.
You should certainly be aware of it, whether or not you think one group or the other is stupid.
That’s up to you. You know that you might cause offense either way, It’s up to you to decide how much that offense will bother you. Or, if you’re a business owner, how much money it may cost you.
Again, you choose to assume that people are lying to you about their own subjective experiences. You again say it’s a “correct conclusion” without any actual evidence that they are lying. Honestly, I have no idea how to live like that, so forgive me if it seems alien. You are the expert on how you feel, not me. DeMarcus Cousins is the expert in how he feels, not you or me. I am the expert on how I feel, not you.
You want to tell me I’m wrong, or that you disagree with me, or that I’m overreacting, that’s awesome. Good on ya; we can discuss it or just go our separate ways. But you want to tell me I’m lying about how I feel? That I’m lying about my lived experiences? Based simply on the fact that you disagree? That’s personal, and rude as fuck.
In your world, no one ever feigns offense? Because in the real world, they do.
Bill O’Reilly is “offended” by Happy Holidays. Now, that’s patently ridiculous. So, I’m faced with two options. Either his “offense” is genuine, in which case, it is so stupid that it is not worthy of any respect. Or, he is lying about his “offense”. In his case, the latter makes more sense. Pretending to be offended by this issue is a ratings booster.
Same thing here. This monkey “offense” is patently ridiculous. Are some people genuinely offended? Probably a few. But, like O’Reilly, taking offense at how another culture’s holiday is celebrated, and has nothing whatever to do with you in any way, is so stupid that it is not worthy of respect. Most people are getting off on the rush of being offended. Either way, ignoring them is the best way to go.
I’m quite capable of hearing someone out for their reasons for being offended. Sometimes they make sense. Sometimes they are so ridiculous that, yes, the only two options are that the person is too wrong to care about or lying. This is the latter. I don’t have to take everything everyone says at face value.
Sure, he could be lying. As you say, he has something to gain. So sure, fine. Let’s say Papa Bear is feigning offense. I’m totally prepared to accept that he is. He nonetheless reflects the views of a lot of people who feel offended by the so-called War on Christmas. They might be stupid, they might be deluded, they might be all twisted up by watching too much No-Spin Zone claptrap. Whatever their reasons, they are legitimately offended.
So what? You think that is unworthy of respect, good on ya. Now you know that some people are going to be offended, but they’re people whose opinions you don’t care about, so you’ll go ahead and say “Happy Holidays,” and they can suck it. I’m right there with you.
But that doesn’t mean they’re lying about the offense they take at the phrase. It just means you disagree with them and think they’re stupid.
That’s not at all an accurate way to describe this kerfuffle.
And once again, this is a bald assertion based on your gut feeling. But even if it were true, I’m pretty sure you just said that they are offended.
Your mom says she is offended by something you find silly and ridiculous. Is she lying or too stupid to breathe? And should you simply ignore her?
ETA: I think part of the disconnect here is with the nebulous concept of “being offended.” I think you see it primarily related to one’s actions, while I’m seeing it more as an emotion. Neither is going to be strictly correct.
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Obviously this is an American thing, but I also thought it was just a silly thing nobody takes serious. Like all those UN days for various things that nobody gives a shit about. Are people in any substantial number actually celebrating – or whatever you’re supposed to do – Black History Month?
Today is Chinese New Year btw. People are out in force here in SE Asia.
It is not a silly thing, and your lack of knowledge of American culture but desire to criticize it is offensive.
Television stations generally do a daily report on someone in American history who was black. Schools teach about black history more thoroughly during this month than during other parts of the year.
I didn’t criticise, but will make up for it now since you insist. American culture sucks because you find everything offensive, but I’m not American so I don’t give a shit about you finding my non-criticism offensive. Being European means never having to say sorry. Fuck Black History Month too. Just for the lolz.
I feel differently. A false accusation of rape is either an attempt to utterly destroy my life (if done, say, for revenge) or a complete disregard for how my life is going to be destroyed (if done, say, to cover up something).
What woud you personnally prefer? Being raped or spend 20 years behind bars and then be labelled a rapist for the rest of your life? If the obvious and easy choice for you would be to be sentenced as a rapist, then fine, to each is own. But you won’t make me think that a false accusation of rape isn’t one of the most heinous and vile things one can do. Even kidnapping me and holding me for years would be much better since at least in this case I’d be considered a victim, not a criminal.
Accusation of murder vs murder is different first because there’s no recovery from being murdered and second because it’s quite difficult to pull it up. But if you could manage to pull it up (say, you’re a police officer and frame me by planting evidence), yes it would be equally incredibly heinous, and I might indeed feel it would have been better if you had killed me outright rather than making me spend the rest of my life in a prison, despised by all.
And before you say that being accused of rape doesn’t necessarily mean I’ll end up with a long sentence, it’s still the result that you expect if you’re accusing me (and besides, even if acquitted, it will likely have devastating consequences). In the same way that the fact you might not succeed in killing me and might only leave me wounded doesn’t make your attempt to murder me any less heinous.
And I doubt I’m alone feeling this way (you only have to read the many threads discussing false rape accusations to notice that I’m not). Even unintended minor injustices massively upset people, especially if they have actual negative consequences (say, you’re mistakenly accused of theft at your workplace and fired as a result). When they’re both deliberate and carry consequences as dreadful as a sentence for a major crime, they’re unlikely to be perceived by the victim as less severe than being victim of an actual major crime. Once again, I’m worst off if you get me in jail than if you kidnap me. So, why exactly do you think that the former isn’t close to as bad as the latter?
I didn’t say false convictions of rape weren’t as bad as rape, I said false accusations of rape aren’t as bad as rape. I take your points, but they don’t really conflict with mine (unless you believe that all false accusations of rape lead to convictions – and I don’t believe this, or anything close to this). Falsely accusing someone of rape is heinous and vile.
It’s almost always the people who’ve never been raped who say that false accusations are as bad as, if not worse than, actually being raped. No, it’s not, and anyone who says that is clearly an idiot.
I think you guys are talking past each other because one thinks the definition of “accusation” is nasty whispering behind someone’s back, and the other thinks it’s the actual description of the DA with all the legal repercussions.
“False accusation of rape” can mean a number of different things with a number of different levels of severity, malice, harm, etc.
“Rape” can mean a number of different things with a number of different levels of severity, malice, harm, etc.
Making a blanket statement either way seems a bit silly to me.
And in addition to it being a meaningless statement, it’s one which perpetuates the false things-that-are-good-for-men vs things-that-are-good-for-women dichotomy. Why is it a competition? Why are we even making that comparison at all?
Rape is a horrible crime that we as a society are still struggling with, both from a law enforcement perspective and from a societal “rape culture” perspective.
A false accusation of rape can horribly destroy an innocent man’s life.
Why isn’t it OK for both of those statements to be independently true?