Attitude towards computer games

Great Debates
101

Again, I think more people can relate to books or music than videogames.

It also has to do with the degree of interest. If you locked yourself in your appartment for days at a time doing nothing but reading or listening to music or watching movies, people would think that was odd. At least if you were writing music or books or screenplays you would be an eccentric artist.

Part of it is that my generation (in our mid 30s) is the first generation to have grown up with videogames since childhood. It was something that we did as kids and only kids played videogames.

But basically I think people just don’t care. Videogames are considered an amusing, if somewhat juvenile, diversion. To take them as seriously as “gamers” do comes accross as silly and juvenile. It’s kind of like, it’s ok to be an adult and say “yeah, Akira is a pretty cool movie”. It’s quite another to have an entire library of anime DVDs.

A lot of it is circular. Gaming is associated with nerds because nerdy guys are gamers. Sure, the high school jocks might play a lot of Madden football, but whenever I flip past G4 or Gameplay HD on my TV, it’s mostly scrawny guys with bad haircuts and oversized T shirts playing Quake or Battlefield. And I said, it’s pretty boring to watch. Teams of pasty faced kids staring slackjawed at a screen with cuts to their avatars running around a maze blasting each other with lasers and shotguns.

102

Again, where is this inexplicable attitude?

Such a huge percentage of the population (well, in North America and Japan) plays video games it’s impossible to believe they’re all castigated for it. So who are these “Gamers” who get all this “Attitude”? Is it just the obsessive ones? If so, don’t you think people obsessive about anything get attitude?

103

This is why this discussion keeps going around in circles, THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN REGULARLY. Gamers do not make a habit of sitting around their houses playing games for hours and hours on end all the time. Does it happen? Absolutely. Is it some kind of menace that should be feared as some of the people in this think. No, that’s crazy.

So you’re using the “Get off my lawn!” defense? And non-gamers wonder why gamers look at them and think they’re old fogeys completely out of touch with the world. It’s because most of them are.

Read the post directly above yours.

104

Why immediately equate videogames with “locking yourself for days at a time doing nothing but playing” ? Why assume highly skilled players got their skill doing that ? Do you know *anybody *who does that ?

Whenever I flip past ESPN, it’s mostly dumb jocks with buzz cuts and oversized clothes playing soccer. And it’s pretty boring to watch - teams of slackjawed bruisers mindlessly kicking a balloon, running across a field in circles or making inane and barely coherent statements… you get the point.

I don’t really get why sports fans love watching soccer, what’s so great about Manchester U, and their discussions about FIFA rulings or coaching decisions are highly jargonized and utterly incomprehensible to me. But around the watercooler, they don’t beget the smirks and derision people talking about their WoW raids do.
Which is OK as long as one recognizes the irrational double standard for what it is - trying to defend and justify it is another proposition alltogether.

As for the comment about Guitar Hero vs. playing a real instrument… walk away. Just… just walk away :).

105

Maybe we need a definition of what a “gamer” is? When I hear the term “gamer” I think of someone who has a bit more than just a casual interest in computer games. I’m thinking people who do play World of Warcraft for 72 hours straight or join clans or set up LAN parties in their appartment. IOW, people who devote serious attention to the activity. People who a significant part of their life revolves around videogames or activities related to videogames.

I don’t consider myself a “gamer”. I consider myself a guy with an XBox 360 who plays videogames casually on Sunday afternoons on occasion.

The reason I assume highly skilled players spend hours and hours playing is that as a general rule, people who are highly skilled at ANYTHING spend hours and hours at it.

More like the “why don’t you kids go outside and get some fresh air” defense.

Actually, non-gamers don’t wonder that at all because they don’t care. It’s a mistake to assume that just because videogames feature prominantly in your world that is the way “The World” is for everyone.

And I don’t think the entire population of videogame players is castigated for it. It seems fairly common for people my age to own a Wii or an XBox360 or Playstation console.

I think World of Warcraft players are derided because from what I’ve observed with MMORPGs, they do take up an exceedingly large amount of time. The perception is that the people who play them spend more time developing a made up persona in a fantasy world than they do developing their lives in the real world. A teenager or 20-something shouldn’t be spending Friday or Saturday night glued to your computer screen. Go out and find a party or get drunk with your friends or hit on some girls or something.

Yeah…I don’t get it. Is that supposed to be some sort of nerd humor where they think it’s actually intimidating to threaten someone with a bunch of fantasy mythos?

106

I’m very surprised to have read through this thread and not seen my answer at all - that when you’re playing a video game, even a more open-ended game like multiplayer Starcraft or an abstract one like Tetris or whatever, you’re in somebody else’s story. It’s more like watching TV than like painting a painting, in a lot of ways. I’m surprised not to see discussion on that.

107

You really don’t, do you ? It’s supposed to be an amusing illustration of the sheer amount of rage one can provoke by spewing their ignorance, especially over topics dear to someone’s heart.

In other words, the reason for The Pit’s existence.

108

I just read through this whole discussion and I think this is the main problem, defining “gamer.” As an anecdote, out of all the people I know under the age of 30, very few, if any, don’t play video games. Games are ubiquitous across the social spectrum. At the same time, I don’t know a single person who would self-identify as a “gamer.” It’s similar to music. Every single prson I know listens to music and has a large music collection, but none of them would describe themselves as audiophiles or anything. When I hear “gamer,” I personally think of the obsessive type spending hours a day to the detriment of their “real life,” with poor social skills etc., because to go out of your way to define yourself that way must mean you’re far more into it than a normal person, who chances are also plays games.

And this is the second part of it, IMO. The stereotypical sports star will probably be out at the pub on Saturday night picking up or hanging out with friends. Someone really into playing Madden or fantasy baseball who otherwise watches sports on TV 24/7 probably won’t tell his friends he’s not coming out because he has to update his roster. The stereotypical gamer is sitting at home, playing with friends online, sober (or worse, drinking “alone”), accruing more gamer points in CoD4. And worse, the stereotypical gamer has no desire to go out and get blitzed and hit on girls. In our culture, this is a cardinal sin and grounds for ridicule, not respect.

And yes, this is all based on broad generalizations and stereotypes and it’s not fair that that kind of perception exists. But life ain’t fair. The only reason those fat guys sitting on their couch updating fantasy teams and watching ESPN all day is because they get shoehorned in to the broad generalizations in the other direction, that anything involving athletics = cool and socially acceptable. In a fair world, the obsessive jocks and obsessive geeks would both be ostracized, while the jocks and geeks with actual talent and real lives would get equal measures of praise. But that’s not the way the world is right now.

So what can be done? I think the best answer has already been mentioned: when people start earning big bucks and/or media exposure and/or celebrity (and therefore big houses, big cars, and lots of women) for playing games, it will change. Until then gaming will never be really “cool” to non gamers.

Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go play some WoW with my non-gamer roommate and girlfriend, who, as females, get a free pass :wink:

109

I read it pretty carefully and saw no attacks on “gamers.” I did read someone trying to explain where some of this attitude might be coming from, but who himself is assuming “Gamer” means someone with an extremely obsessive devotion to video games, not someone who merely plays video games - as he himself says he does.

ANYONE obsessed with anything’s going to be looked down upon for it. What I’m wondering is where the sentiment is that was expressed in the beginning of this thread - that anyone who plays video games must necessarily be obsessed with them. Who thinks that? Where are they?

110

Ditto, and what Grendel’s Father said following. My girlfriend gave me some XBOX360 games for Christmas, plus the official wireless racing wheel “with force feedback” (drool). :smiley: I thanked her profusely. Then she referred to me, in explaining her gift to someone else, as a gamer. At which point I gently interrupted and said “nonono,” explaining exactly what you said. Casual gaming does not make one a gamer, it makes one a normal person in my demographic. And that’s causing confusion among people who don’t really understand the proliferation and penetration of video gaming and who are making ignorant pronouncements from outside the phenomenon.

111

the very assumption that such a neutral sounding word (gamer) should refer to the obsessive end of the spectrum reflects some of this attitude mentioned.

since it is accepted that everyone games, it is strange to me that the word ‘gamer’ appears to lean towards a derogative; where a casual gamer would hasten to correct his girlfriend that he is not actually one. (/aside :p)

i thought being a gamer meant that games are what you do for entertainment. the thing that you prefer to do during your leisure time at home. perhaps i should surrender the word ‘gamer’ and simply say ‘I love games’. a bit much still? (but ‘I love music’ doesn’t seem much) ‘I like games’ then. no. ‘I play [del]games[/del] (them) every, now and then’.

i’m not a hardcore gamer, i’m not a casual gamer. i’m just a gamer. and Generic you can go stuff your Generic snide looks up your Generic arse.

112

I’m pretty into “Gaming Culture”- I keep up with the references, know which games are coming out on PC, play the ones I like and can afford, etc, and generally consider myself a “Gamer”.

On the other hand, I do have balanced non-gaming hobbies and interests, I don’t own any consoles, and I don’t play WoW.

Am I a hardcore gamer? Nope. Do I like computer games? You betcha. I consider myself slightly more involved in gaming than most people my own age, but it’s very much a secondary hobby of mine, if that makes sense.

113

Well, I played video games until high school. I don’t play any now. Also, most of my friends do not play video games, not even casually. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they picked it up again when they have kids.

114

:confused:

Yes, you are a gamer. The mere fact that you like playing video games makes you one, just as posting on the SDMB makes you a poster, no matter how often you post.

Why does the term “gamer” have to be someone who is not you? Drawing such a distinction between gamers and “normal people” only emphasizes that negative image of a Cheeto-stained lardbutt who can barely be bothered to get up from his seat except to use the bathroom. You are a normal person, and you are a gamer. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Now, difference in degree is something else again. You might just be an occasional or casual gamer instead of hardcore or addicted, but you’re still a gamer.

I didn’t catch that I’m essentially repeating shijinn’s position. Oh well, that makes two of us.

115

Maybe they’re embarassed to admit to you they still play games because you apparently think it’s only for children.

116

Sir, can you just relax a bit and stop looking for every excuse to be hostile and defensive?

My response to shijinn was specifically about “everyone” plays games. It was not a negative response and shouldn’t be read as such.

I’m not downgrading people for playing videogames. Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and I’m sure dozens of other billionaires, millionaires, saints, studs, philosophers, gentlemen, soldiers, etc,etc play videogames. I totally get that.

“Videogamer” does not equal “drooling chimpanzee.” Yes, YOUR MESSAGE HAS BEEN RECEIVED and I AGREE.

117

Who’s being hostile? I’m merely pointing out that a lot of people who play games don’t like to be seen as “gamers” because of the totally unfounded stigma against games that exists amongst the washed (not the unwashed, they love gaming) masses.

Why, you can see examples in this very thread.

118

Playing GTA4 on my XBox no more makes me a “Gamer” than playing pickup football on the weekend or watching the Superbowl makes me a “Jock” or an “Athlete”. I am no more a “Runner” because I sometimes sign up for the 3.5 mile JP Morgan Corporate Challange once a year than I am an “Actor” because of a play I was in back in second grade. These are terms that people who define themselves by their dedication to a particular activity use.

Am I embarrassed about playing videogames? No. It’s common enough among my peer group of 30-something professionals that it’s not looked at as odd. At least not by the males in that group. Our women tend to complain to each other a lot when they come home to find us playing CoD 4 and “talking smack to 13 year olds” like Vince Vaugn in The Breakup.

But I don’t define myself by playing videogames. It is an interest of mine, just like listening to music, dining in NY restaurants and pretending I’m going to go work out today.

119

Exactly my point. The term is too vague to build a discussion around. For some, it means one thing. For others, it means something else. And various sides are slinging the term in the context of different arguments with no operating definition, thus creating the confusion of multiple conversants talking past one another. Much of the repetitive back-and-forth in this thread, it seems to me, could have been avoided if there were an understanding, at the outset, of the difference between casual, hardcore, and obsessive gaming, instead of everybody’s having proceeded based on unspoken assumptions.

120

If I could just insert a non-hostile non-judgmental reminder of the OP’s exact wording to start this thread with bolding for emphasis:

That’s what the very existence of this thread is about! From the genesis of post #1, ITR Champion has for the sake of this discussion, filtered out “casual gamers.”

You guys crack me up… you jump into a thread expecting liberal-minded eloquence on “casual gamers” but disgusted and shocked that folks keep talking about “hardcore gamers.” It’s like going to Las Vegas and being astonished that people are gambling!