Put him and Tebow on the same team? J/K
I’ll be very interested to see how this turns out. I’ve written quite a bit on these boards before about the contrasts between rugby and the NFL. Here’s one example. That post is more about rugby union, but a lot of the same issues emerge in comparisons with rugby league. Some of my comments below are actually cut from that post.
To be honest, i’m rather dubious about whether this works out, despite Hayne’s undoubted physical attributes and his great skills. First, he’s 27 years old. That is, as many NFL followers understand, just about the time that many running backs begin to lose their effectiveness in the NFL. Hayne comes with the advantage of maybe not having copped quite the physical pummeling that a typical running back gets by age 27, but he also comes without the strategic experience and the blocking skills of someone who’s been playing the game for years.
I think an important issue is one that a few folks have noted above: the very different nature of the game itself, particularly the types of movement that make it up. NFL is, by its very nature, a game where there is movement in multiple directions at once, at multiple places on the field. Watch any NFL play and you’ll see people in motion on a huge variety of different vectors, with many possible targets for the ball. Rugby, by contrast, is much more limited in its motion at any one time. This is largely due to the restrictions imposed by the rules themselves (passes must go backwards; the offside rule).
Also, the NFL has rules that specifically allow contact and hitting of offensive players who are not carrying the ball. In rugby, by contrast, if you smack into someone who is not carrying the ball, you will likely draw a penalty, and NFL moves like screens and blocks are, in rugby, termed “obstruction” or “shepherding” and result in turning the ball over to the other team.
Because there are no blocks, and no forward passes, it is much more unusual in rugby to get a hit on a defenseless player, as happens in the NFL quite often. In NFL, it’s not uncommon to see a tight end or receiver coming across the middle to catch the ball, knowing he’s going to take a big hit before he has a chance to prepare himself. And even running backs sometimes get clobbered by defenders they never see coming. In rugby, because the ball is passed backwards, and running tends to occur vertically up and down the field, the ball-carrier is nearly always prepared for you. Yes, there are occasions when you can smash a guy when he’s in a vulnerable position trying to catch a pass, but those types of passes are called “hospital passes” for a reason, and don’t happen very often.
Another of the skills that makes Haynes such a good rugby player will be effectively useless in the NFL: the ability to pass the ball as he is being tackled. A key skill in rugby (both codes, but especially league), is the ability to run at the defense in a way that attracts more than one defender to you, and then, as you are being tackled, to pass the ball to a teammate, who now has some open field to run in as a result of the defensive shift. Try that in the NFL, and it’s a recipe for disaster. Firstly, your teammates aren’t going to be expecting the ball anyway, and secondly, there will be half a dozen opponents in the area ready to dive on it, and a turnover in the NFL usually is far more valuable (or devastating, if you’re the team losing the ball) than a turnover in rugby.
It will also be interesting to see, if he makes it onto the field, how Hayne adapts to the incredible lack of control he is going to have over the course of play. Hayne was a key player on his team, and despite the fact that he didn’t always play in a position known for controlling the play, he had broad license to move around on the field and insert himself into places where he could make a difference. Also, while rugby coaches go over broad strategy and tactics, once the game begins, the play itself is basically left to the players. Hayne is going to have to get used to a system where he is not (one of) the guy/s calling the shots on the field, and where just about every single pay he is involved in has a very specific and prescribed role for him to play. There might be occasions where improvisation is possible, but nowhere near as much as in rugby. It will be interesting to see how a stand-out superstar who is used to a lot of autonomy handles being a cog in a big machine.
I would say that the level of coordination is not so much the key, but the basic requirement. The problem is that, even if you’re naturally talented, a lifetime of focusing on one set of techniques (e.g., how to use a flat-bladed bat to hit a cricket ball) can often make it difficult to switch to another somewhat similar but still very different set of techniques. Hayne is going to face this challenge too.
That was an incredibly unusual situation, and one that simply can’t be sustained with any regularity in American football, even if every player on the offensive side is a skilled rugby-style passer of the ball.
Anyway, i’ve got to say that Hayne has some balls for trying this. He’s an absolute star in Australia, in the prime of his skills and earning power, and his willingness to take a shot at something different will be interesting to watch.
So he’ll be fielding kick-offs and punts then? Sounds like a pretty good fit to me. It’ll be interesting to see if he makes the cut and gets real game time.
It doesn’t sound like he will be returning punts and kickoffs. I believe he will be blocking for the kick returner.
I would guess that in the early days of football people thought of the forward pass like you are thinking of the technique of lateraling the ball when receiving kick-offs: as a stunt, trick-play, and one-time thing to do before getting back to “three yards and a cloud of dust”. Here is a movie of a 1903 football game. But what if your whole kick-receiving special team was full of Jarred Haynes ? Then lateraling on a high percentage of kick-offs might not be crazy.
Maybe, but i’m not convinced.
A lateral pass requires, by definition, that the guy you’re passing to is either level with you or behind you on the field. You know what he can’t do in those positions? He can’t block defenders, and the fact that he’s put himself in a position to the side of you is likely to leave a big hole for the defense to run through and pummel you.
Lateral passes work in rugby, in large measure, precisely because the game has rules against blocking and obstruction and other off-the-ball collisions.
Yes, but you have to remember that a rugby player is much more accurate at lateral passes at a longer distance. It may be possible to create a huge amount of misdirection if you can accurately lateral the ball halfway across the field. I don’t know what effect the different ball shape would have.
Uh, No. No way the 49ers guarantee $100k to a 27-year-old Australian to block on return teams. There’s no blocking experience there and and any 6th Round backup can do that. No, his only chance to make the 53-man roster is as a return man and possible wing-T type RB. It’s a long shot either way.
The 49ers are working on Lawrence Okoye, the British discus thrower and former rugby player. He made the practice squad last season and that may be the best hope for Haynes.
In any case he’ll be interesting to follow this offseason and fun to watch in August.
They wouldn’t stand a chance of making it work in the NFL. The kicking team is coming too fast and they’re too agile for any lateral scheme to work a reasonable percent of the time. You’d end up with lots of turnovers deep in your own end, which would negate any few successful returns.
Look at forward passes in the NFL. That’s something that teams parctice day in and day out, and that the players have been practicing all their lives. Even the absolute best quarterbacks in the league have 30% of their attempts go for incompletions. That number gets a lot worse when the throws are made under pressure or (for most QBs) on the run, and incomplete forward passes simply stop play and return the ball to the line of scrimmage.
Laterals that aren’t completed are live balls and are as likely to be picked up by a defender as anyone else. They’re high reward, in that a TD is a potential result, but they’re even higher risk. If you screw that up, you’re likely to lose one of 12-15 possessions you have in the game. The risk/reward ratio is so skewed that there’s almost never a reason to do it.
Laterals on returns happen under only a couple of conditions in the NFL:
[ul]
[li]When a return is an all-or-nothing play (e.g., the Music City Miracle)[/li][li]When a team is totally outmatched, has nothing to lose, and is looking for a surprise edge[/li][li]on Ed Reed interception returns, and any Ravens fan will tell you that they held their breath during those plays[/li][/ul]
That’s pretty much it. Hayne’s team might face a situation like that once or twice in a given season, and he might have the opportunity to freelance if they do… but that role isn’t the one he should pin his NFL aspirations to.
As Enginerd points out, the real problem with laterals in the NFL is that there’s no such thing as an “incomplete” lateral. Any lateral you don’t catch is a live ball the other team can scoop up.
The linked article said zero about him being a return man. His training with Tim Dwight is focusing on how to “rush the punt and then get back and block for the return,” and then on offense, he could “possibly” be an H-back but “could maybe run the ball a little bit as well as jump in the slot and run some routes.”
The specific comment I was responding to seemed to take it for granted that “special teams” means that he will be returning kicks. There’s no mention of that anywhere, so I was clarifying that his apparent role on special teams is what I described.
But I totally agree, the deck is stacked against him making the roster… but I’m still going to root for him.
ETA: and the idea that NFL kick returns are suddenly going to shift to a lateral-heavy strategy because of one dude’s highly successful experience with rugby is just not going to happen. It’s like saying that if Devin Hester went to Australia, suddenly rugby would adopt a flying wedge strategy so he could run the ball back for huge yardage every time.
Well, sort of. There’s one important difference.
While i agree that there’s no way an NFL team is going to start a strategy of lateral passing, at least if they did it would be legal. A flying wedge strategy would be against the obstruction rules of rugby, so there’s no way a rugby team could try that.
Offside, no blocking/interference, (intentional) knock ons. A few reasons why practically nothing translates from one game to the other. Laterals included.
Hayne will be interesting but he’s no Sonny Bill. But it’s doubtful even SBW would acclimate even though he’s shown zero problems code switching. The required skill sets are just too different. Maybe a freak lock could cut it as a tight end or something but speed will always be an issue. It’s just not that important in rugby.
I have a feeling that come late August, SF will cut him, give him his 100k and say G’Day mate. Or, stash him on the practice squad and let him go once he hits 100k in weekly checks, since they are paying him anyway.
Point of order:
G’day is not a departing salutation. You don’t say it when bidding someone goodbye, only when greeting them. 
Good Day, Mate. Hope you enjoyed your time in the United States!
You know what would be different in the NFL? The guy you are lateraling to could have blockers.
I do not follow this argument.
I think **mhendo’s **point is that in rugby attacking players ahead of the ball carrier are effectively out of play, and therefore worthless. But those behind or in line with the ball carrier can receive lateral passes.
Not so in American football, where blockers ahead of the ball carrier are pretty useful.
As for Hayne, it seems a waste to use him as a blocker only. Still the 49ers are only on the hook for effectively petty cash to have a look at him, and no doubt will see whether he’s worth giving a go to in training.
No, I don’t think that’s his point. Let’s say you have three offensive players abreast, advancing down the field. If the guy in the middle has the ball, he could lateral to either one. In the NFL, the defense could essentially take out either guy who doesn’t have the ball, while another guy trys to tackle the ball carrier. My very rough understanding of rugby is that the defense wouldn’t be allowed to flatten the two non-ball carrying players, nor would the non-ball carrying players be allowed to knock defenders on their asses. Am I in the ballpark for rugby?