Do most automatic transmissions in passenger cars want to shift up at around 30MPH?
The speed limit in most areas of my city is 30MPH, and I’ve noticed over the years that trying to maintain that speed is uncomfortable because it always feels like my car is just on the verge of shifting gears, but isn’t quite able. At 35MPH, everything feels “right”.
This is on more-or-less flat, straight roads. I’ve driven a variety of cars of different makes and models, built between 1986 and 2006, and it’s been the same with all of them.
Gear hunting is very common at low speeds. Modern automatics have a prime directive to reach the highest gear possible, without lugging the engine.
Since we now have 6,7,8,9 and 10-speed automatics, at 30 MPH you have enough momentum, and were probably just in the midst up accelerating, so virtually all automatics (modern) are just continuing on with their prime directive: Upshift, because you’re suddenly done accelerating.
The problem with all automatics is that they can’t see stop signs, inclines, traffic ahead, a door about to open into your path, etc. They’re going up in gear as you need the same gear or one lower.
I can’t imagine driving a modern auto trans in fully automatic mode all the time. I believe your complaint is one of the most common complaints about modern cars: Touch screens drive people nuts, and annoying shifting/up-shifting/gear hunting. They are the things people are yelling at automakers about.
Driving around town? Shift yourself, or ‘lock out’ higher gears. If your trans allows this.
Fortunately, there are many automakers that manufacture cars (and transmissions) that have multiple “modes”, which will alter shift points, etc along with a HUGE host of other customizable features to suit the demands of the driver, the driving conditions and the sporting nature of the driver. This is more prevalent in cars that have sporting aspirations to start with.
For instance, the Porsche PDK transmission is regarded by most to be the best automatic transmissions available.
It also used to be that manuals were “faster” than autos, and that’s no longer true either.
Most enthusiasts will still today proclaim the manual shift model of a sports car to be superior, when in fact it generally isn’t anymore on many models, and so it has become a preference for many drivers.
Yeah… as a former owner of a PDK and a mix currently of dual-clutch automatics and true manuals, I won’t discuss all the misinformation out there, but most knowledgeable enthusiasts know manuals are about driver engagement (not performance or efficiency).
Whether a 9-speed ZF slushbox or DSG 6 speed in the VW Group’s line-up, having 7-10 gears is about placating efficiency standards in different regions, and then how they are programmed and managed by the driver (most are clueless and passive with them) set them up for constant up-shifting, long before any sane person driving a manual would upshift.
We can have entire threads, but I’ve been on enough car forums with this subject already.
But we agree: Lots of gears/modes, and this desire to get to the tallest gear ASAP… and in Auto mode, the driving experience is ruined.
PDK, VW DSG and all others are ok when the driver is playing some role in how/when they shift.
Indeed. My personal car has been a stick for almost a couple decades now. I only buy stick shifts. But everyone else in my family drives automatic, and I end up driving auto at least 50% of the time. It doesn’t bug me in the least bit, and I’ve never heard any of my family and friends (90% of whom drive automatics) complain about anything to do with shifting. I would be shocked if that was one of the most usual complaint these days about modern cars.
As to the OP, yes, that’s about right for the shift point. As said above, different cars will vary slightly (and may vary on the mode the D gear is set it; my wife’s car, for example, has an Eco mode, a Sport mode, and a Regular mode), but somewhere in that 25-30 mph range is where the shift usually is.
At 30 mph the vehicle is getting up to where drag is becoming important … Its taking a fair power and torque just to maintain speed.
They change at all different speeds … you can change the drive ratio in some vehicles,eg at the differential.
They all go back a gear when you put your foot down, the transmission knows you want acceleration. You aren’t getting much extra torque , power without going to higher RPM’s…so if you want to accelerate positively not just slowly… it changes back.
I think the roughness of your ride is due to vehicle quality…Did you try a Mercedes Benz or a 1990’s or Toyota v6/v8 ? Volvo cars are twice the price because of the extra effort to get it to run smooth ?
Consumers are complaining about the quality and the operation. Their voice is so powerful, manufacturers are re-thinking their strategy and have abandoned some dual-clutch automatics, or write them out of future plans. etc.
People can now feel shifting (more and more abrupt), and since there are more gears, it’s more and more hunting/shifting, with some being clunky and abrupt (as a design of the dual clutch trans, they aren’t hydraulic (soft, fluid); they are solid connections and mechanical shifts).
Go back to the OP. He is here inquiring; now magnify that by millions of users, and they are not happy even when the dual clutch and other many-speed trans are operating as designed.
I said it above and will expand: Tech, like touch screens, and modern automatics, are the top complaints to auto makers, survey takers and government agencies.
it isn’t that there are “more gears.” dual-clutch transmissions are a bad idea in general for a street car. And the only conventional automatic which has been regularly panned for shift quality is the ZP 9HP 9-speed transaxle. you know why? because its packaging required it to use dog clutches (like the ones inside manual and dual clutch transmissions) for a couple of gear steps. Specifically 4-5 and 7-8. actuating a dog clutch takes time and requires a torque interruption.
the millions of 6, 8, and 10 speed automatics aren’t getting any complaints.
at any rate I was mostly pooh-pooing your silly suggestion to “shift gears yourself.”
Or not noticeable enough, which is why a host of CVT based cars have “shift points” when they don’t need them. People’s expectations are odd sometimes.
I agree that dual-clutch automatics should not be in the common man’s car. Slushboxes are better. Yes, even ones with 9-10 gears. However, complaints are high with the 8-10 speed slushboxes, because of all the gear hunting vs more traditional layouts with 4-6 gears.
Sort of like this order:
Slushbox suits most best
Slushbox with more than 7 gears tend to spike complaints, but still **good to fair **overall
Dual clutch automated manuals raise the most complaints. Their actions can be clunky, shuddery, etc. Overall pushing a **poor rating **for most.
But…
Dual clutch automated manuals in the hands of someone experienced who will operate it ‘manually’ is very rewarding
Dual clutch automated manuals will revert to their place in the automotive world occupied by minorities (enthusiasts)
As an ‘enthusiast’ (a cringe worthy description), I’d rather enjoy a slushbox in a non-performance car, if I had to have it in a automatic
So, I am not suggesting everyone just learn to love dual clutch automated manuals, but if you have one and want to enjoy it AND have a manual driver’s mentality, shift it ‘manually.’ You can poo poo anything you choose, but I cannot see the logic of poo pooing that point.
I have a 2015 BMW 328i, 8 speed ZF. From what I’ve read the transmission program is actually able to adapt to driver habits, and this isn’t unique. Overall I find the tranmission/engine relationship one of the strongest point on this car, which is the best car I’ve owned by a wide margin (I don’t pretend to have owned all the best cars, but some other decent cars, and this one is much better). No problem hunting gears at any speed. The car does indeed seem to ‘know’ what gear it should be in. Assuming you’ve set it in the mode (ECO PRO, Comfort, Sport, and there’s a separate transmission mode choice that mainly affects the first two) that’s appropriate, also like lots of cars now. There’s no reason to shift the automatic manually unless that’s really what you want to do. Likewise if you’d really like to row a manual transmission, great, but you’re not going to get more tangible performance out of the car unless comparing to a crappy automatic. Good automatics (as well as DCT’s) are smarter than drivers now.