Azores: An Historic Summit?

I certainly agree that these are amazing times. I’m still not sure who is getting bruised. But, your take seems as good as any right now.

What kind of threat Saddam poses (is it possible this question might be nearing an answer?), the regional reaction, the Kurdish X-factor, the terror X-factor, Iraqi territorial integrity, and how the war turns out - all still being up in the air - preclude me from picking the most bruised parties yet. But, as we used to say in elementary school, the US appears to be “cruisin’ for a bruisin’.”

I’m saying that this dispute is not being couched in economic terms. France (shorthand for the EU counterweight faction) is offering an alternative to the US “hyperpower.” The language of “containment” is being used by the major players. You just tossed around allusions to empire, based in part on the Marshall Plan. Sigh

At some point, this type of passive-aggressive hyperbolic bellicose diplospeak is going to get very corrosive. If it already hasn’t.

What’s the line from 1984 where Newspeak is described as being able to allow folks to have a converstation, but no one understands what’s being said?

Somebody ‘borrowed’ my well-worn copy of 1984 in about 1994. I don’t think it’s coming back. I need to replace it.

Color me confused. Every time one of these new world alignment threads comes up, one question enters my mind: are we going to get to vote on any of this?

I don’t know to what this is referring. Could you explain and cite what you mean by this?

Obviously. This is why I cannot understand the use of the term “bribe” to describe the administration’s negotiations with other countries. Sure, in a literal sense it’s accurate - trading of money or gifts for political favors (or even political favors for other political favors). But that is what diplomacy is. So Turkey has to be bought; does that mean it would be better to just use their bases without their consent? ignore them completely and militarily plan around them? or is Turkey having a natural interest in our actions the only way for those actions to be legitimate? Given the Left’s (I know I am using that term somewhat monolithically, but I think we can agree it’s fairly accurate in this instance) insistence on “diplomacy”, which is by definition the trading of favors, I can’t see how they would have it any other way.

I don’t know what you consider a “small handful” of nations. The US has at least 20 nations openly supporting this initiative. The fact that those nations include Bulgaria does not mean they do not include the UK, Australia, Spain, and Jordan. In any case, if you believe the diplomatic course has to be pursued, then why must we have “natural” allies in our favor? The countries who are supporting the war effort have some interest in it (or at least in supporting it), just as the countries opposing it have an interest in it not happening, or in opposing it. I agree that it is perfectly legitimate for France to act in its own interest, but I do not understand why it is illegitimate for the US to act in its own.

For the record, I’m against the war as I believe it would require too many financial and military resources that we cannot afford to expend right now, but I just don’t understand why for the US’s action to be legitimate, Syria, China, and Cameroon (I suppose this last one is consistent with your mocking of our having Bulgaria’s support) have to approve.

IEatFood: rather a sweeping statement you made there without a cite.
From the latest release about the current account deficit:

Foreign-owned assets in the United States increased $183.0 billion in the fourth quarter, compared with an increase of $129.3 billion in the third. U.S. liabilities to foreigners reported by U.S. banks increased $54.6 billion in the fourth quarter, compared with an increase of $18.8 billion in the third. Net foreign purchases of U.S. Treasury securities were $12.7 billion in the fourth quarter, down from $52.9 billion in the third. Net foreign purchases of U.S. securities other than U.S. Treasury securities were $62.6 billion in the fourth quarter, up from net foreign purchases of $46.5 billion in the third. Net foreign purchases of U.S. bonds were $50.6 billion, up from $39.1 billion. Net foreign purchases of U.S. stocks were $12.0 billion, up from $7.4 billion. Net financial inflows for foreign direct investment in the United States were $13.5 billion in the fourth quarter, up from $2.9 billion in the third. A large decrease in net outflows for intercompany debt and a small increase in reinvested earnings more than offset a decrease in net inflows for equity capital.
From this site: http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrel/trans402.htm

And then there’s this little note about Fannie Mae, one of the government sponsored agencies that issue mortgages:

“International investors bought about 36 percent of the $85 billion of benchmark notes Fannie Mae issued last year.”

From this story: http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030312/markets_fanniemae_issue_1.html

So foreigners are responsible for supplying money in all kinds of areas, including home mortgages.
I’ve never even seen a note in one of these releases for supposed “bailouts”. Our debt situation is a bit more complex than the picture you apparently have painted in your mind.
As London Calling put it:

Given the rapid deterioration in our financial position vis a vis the world, I don’t see how you justify a war on Iraq using any kind of cost/benefit analysis, especially when it’s a given by now that this will result in an increase in terrorist action against us, which as we have already seen, can be very costly in economic terms as well as in lives. For a short time I was leaning towards the side that it might be justifiable to go after Iraq; but this is one of those things you can only even think about if the cost is low.
A word about the coverage and the expectations: if there’s one thing this Azores summit showed, it’s that everyone’s expecting this to be quick. The spirit was “Let’s get this over with already.” Victory may be assured, but the speed of victory isn’t.
If this gets dragged out at all, it will be very bad for the U.S. Expectations of what the Iraqi Army can do are so low that almost any kind of effective resistance will come as a shock to us and as a huge morale boost to the Arabs, especially the Islamic fundamentalists. We can easily win this battle and lose the war, even if we don’t suffer that many casualties. So in that sense the cost/benefit analysis is also hugely out of whack. The risks are so high, and the threshold for failure so low, that it really is mind boggling.

fang, I have no time to respond to your post at length tonight. And I doubt that even if I did I would convince you of much since there is a lot of difference in our vision. Case in point, your belief that “diplomacy” is some kind of leftist strategy rather than a non-partisan alternative–in fact, the only alternative–to military force.

On Mexico, I don’t have a cite handy for you as this was reported in a Times piece that is now archived and no longer available free of charge. Basically Bush noted how much anti-French sentiment there was in the United States and asked the Mexicans to imagine how that might play out in in the case of Mexicans, since so many Mexican immigrants work and live in the United States. Perhaps someone else can come up with something on google.

Although I don’t have time to answer your post blow by blow, the gist of what I would say is epitomized by two editorials I read prior to reading the Straight Dope tonight. So here are some exceprts and links for you to ponder–and I hope that you do read the links in their entirety.

Here is what the Guardian had to say in response to the Azores summit–i.e. prior to Bush’s speech tonight. (The Guardian btw is one of the UK’s principal broadsheet newspapers and the one usually associated with a more Labour Party (i.e. Blair’s party) agenda.

"Downing Street has made much in recent days of Mr Blair’s willingness to go the “extra mile” for peace. He probably genuinely thinks he is still doing so. But judging by Mr Bush’s bellicose weekend radio address and his petulant tone in the Azores, he is being strung along as usual. If the mini-summit was intended to show that the two men are acting with due regard to democratic opinion, it failed. If it was an effort to persuade people that the US and Britain are not acting precipitately, that failed too.

"It has been plain for weeks that the US military timetable is dictating events. That is the principal reason why Britain has run out of time for its “second resolution”. Yesterday the unjustly vilified French offered yet another compromise. The inspections process is still ongoing; Hans Blix is due to set out Iraq’s next disarmament tasks in a report this week. Iraq itself is still voluntarily destroying missiles that it might well prefer to keep given the threat it faces. It has invited Mr Blix to pay another visit. If Mr Blair and Mr Bush arbitrarily wreck this process now, as seems certain, they will be branded warmongers by most of the world. And they will make their own peoples targets for terrorist retribution.

“…[T]he pretence that the US and Britain are acting legally in circumventing the UN is preposterous. Resolution 1441, upon which their case mainly rests, invoked, embraced and superseded all previous Iraq-related resolutions. It specifically did not authorise the use of military force. If it had, it simply would not have been passed. Mr Blair and Mr Bush also risk breaching the UN charter, as Kofi Annan notes. They have no legal mandate to attack, let alone a mandate for regime change and an indefinite occupation. Rarely has war been launched from such shaky ground. Rarely have a war’s proponents been so blind, so wrong and in such a rush.”
So that is what our principal ally’s principal newspaper has to say.

And here is what the New York Times has to say in response to Bush’s speech–a paper that has editorialized in favor of military force under certain (cooperative) conditions.

An excerpt:

"The hubris and mistakes that contributed to America’s current isolation began long before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. From the administration’s first days, it turned away from internationalism and the concerns of its European allies by abandoning the Kyoto Protocol on global warming and withdrawing America’s signature from the treaty establishing the International Criminal Court. Russia was bluntly told to accept America’s withdrawal from the Antiballistic Missile Treaty and the expansion of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization into the territory of the former Soviet Union. In the Middle East, Washington shortsightedly stepped backed from the worsening spiral of violence between Israel and the Palestinians, ignoring the pleas of Arab, Muslim and European countries. If other nations resist American leadership today, part of the reason lies in this unhappy history.

The Atlantic alliance is now more deeply riven than at any time since its creation more than a half-century ago. A promising new era of cooperation with a democratizing Russia has been put at risk. China, whose constructive incorporation into global affairs is crucial to the peace of this century, has been needlessly estranged. Governments across the Muslim world, whose cooperation is so vital to the war against terrorism, are now warily navigating between popular anger and American power."

Perhaps this gives you some idea of why I see things very differently from you.