So the grandfather is too stupid to realize that the window was open and red granddaughter falls through? WTF?!? This sounds like bullshit to me.
We’re discussing this extensively on a true-crime website, and besides the insanity of taking a baby on a cruise, we’re thinking that either the grandfather has dementia, or this was no accident, for whatever motive.
Interesting. As the article noted, originally they were saying that the grandfather was pulling a Michael Jackson–now the story has been changed to blame the cruise line. I wonder which is true?
It sounds like a tragic accident, and if there is negligence involved then it could be on the part of the cruise line for having windows that can be opened by passengers adjacent to, or in, the children’s play area. It seems that the grandfather thought this bit of window was a glass window, like the others around it, but it was instead an open window.
I’m not saying the grandfather is lying, exactly - but who puts an 18 month old against the glass 11 decks up so she can bang on the glass like she does at her brother’s hockey games. And how do you not notice the lack of glass when you’re putting the kid on the railing in front of it? It made more sense the first way I heard it , that the kid got way from grandpa and he wasn’t fast enough to stop her.
I don’t think it’s that unusual to bring a baby on a cruise- the ships I’ve been on have nursery programs for children as young as six months - and they wouldn’t have them if people didn’t bring babies on cruises. ( I mean I wouldn’t have, but my kids were close enough in age that they were generally either both too young or both old enough for particular vacations- it might be different with a six year spread between children)
Yeah - we’ll see what the real facts are, but wife and I are both lawyers, and find this outrageous as reported. As a general rule, you cannot impose liability based on the injured party’s expectations. He thought there was glass there? Well, shouldn’t he have checked before holding a toddler up to “bang” on it? At the very least, contributory/comparative fault should come into play.
Tragic situation, but much gross stupidity does result in tragedy.
I’ve been on a couple of Royal Caribbean ships so I’m familiar with the type of windows on this ship. There’s no way on earth he could not know that the window was open. The glass is tinted and even when freshly washed, they’re not as clear as no glass at all. Not to mention air and sounds are different at a window and at an opening.
Also they’re too high for a toddler to reach unless there was a chair directly under the open window, and I doubt any child could slide them open under the best of circumstances - so the proximity to the children’s pool area shouldn’t be an issue.
This whole thing is hinky to me…
So do a few too many beers. Who knows.
I think he put his brain in park while on vacation because nothing bad ever happens on vacation then he made the biggest error in judgment of his life. Accidents happen and I believe this was a very unfortunate accident. If GPa was paying more attention and engaged his brain he would not have propped her up on a railing then released his hold of the child before he notices the window is actually open.
Can anyone find a picture that shows the window and the railing or whatever shelf the kid was sitting on? I"m trying to imagine the scenario.
Didn’t something similiar happen to Eric Clapton’s son?
Not quite. Conor was 4 years old, and the window had been removed by worker while doing repairs. Conor ran past and up to lean against the low window to look out like he usually did but this time there was no glass to stop him.
This is my opinion also. From looking at the pictures it seems like one of those “your brain filled in the gaps” things, he expected solid glass all around and wasn’t really looking at it at all. Unfortunately in the split second it took his brain to catch up the damage was already done.
Maybe he did know it was open, went too far with the Michael Jackson thing and didn’t want to admit it, either way I feel pretty bad for him right now.
I wish the photo from the inside had been taken during the day - because from the outside it’s obvious that there is no glass there and I suspect it’s obvious from the inside during daylight.
But if that piece of wood inside the circle is what he stood her on, it makes even less sense. Because why would you have her stand on what looks to be a rod two or three feet above the floor when the windows are basically floor-to-ceiling. And even if there’s some bizarre reason to have her stand on that, the grandfather had to be literally right in front of the open window - I’m not sure how you don’t notice the glass is missing when it’s a foot in front of your face. There’s is additionally a discrepancy in the description of where it happened- the area is described as being an outdoor kids area surrounded by two walls of windows but going by the photo from the outside and with the police tape- it seems it must have happened in the area to the left in this photo , which is clearly inside, although I can’t tell for certain what it is. ( Maybe it’s a dining area like the initial reports said)
I don’t see how this happens without him having either a couple too many or a medical problem - which doesn’t mean he did it deliberately but does make it harder for me to fault the cruise line. I’ve been on cruises, and it’s not like every deck has a 15 foot high glass wall to keep you from going overboard.
That is horrifying, tragic, and weird, all at the same time.
On the one hand, why is there even the possibility of an open window, 11 stories up in a children’s play area? That’s an accident waiting to happen right there. It should not be openable at that height even if it’s not a children’s play area. Maybe in case of an emergency. Maybe. That’s horrifying. Because of course you would expect solid glass all the way around.
On the other hand, how is it he goes to the ONE open window, among many windows that are not open? That’s weird.
Also weird: she likes to pound on glass, so he lets her? Encourages her? Enables her?I mean…come on. There’s being an indulgent grandpa and then there’s being a bad grandpa.
Tragic because this family will probably never recover from this, ever. Not only have they lost a child, they have probably lost a relationship with a grandfather, and a son has lost a relationship with a father, and vice versa, and the grandfather probably will never forgive himself (nor should he, actually).
The rod looks like a railing, which is typically placed along the edge of ships to have something to hold onto in heavy weather.
If the grandfather put the kid up there, which is stupid, he should have kept a good hold on him. What if the kid had fallen backwards instead of forward and smashed his head? Blame the cruise line for that also?
I’m guessing that he didn’t dangle the baby Michael Jackson style, but probably held the baby near the open window to look at the waves and the ocean–fully knowing and specifically because it was an open window. Probably let the baby stand on the handrail, kind of half holding him. Probably even had his chest against the baby’s back so he wouldn’t fall backwards. The boat swayed, as boats do, and the baby fell forwards.
There would be no reason to set a baby on a hand rail to bang on glass that wasn’t even there.
My take: I hate to say it, but grandpa was careless.
Thanks. For whatever reason they think it is appropriate for the toddler to bang on glass at a hockey game, so this idiot GF thinks it is OKAY to bang on glass ANYWHERE? And the windows seem to go down to the floor. So the moron isn’t content to let her bang on the glass down there - he has to place her on the railing?
Now, in cases like this, different facts often emerge later. But based on what I see, the GF is a moron, and any legal action should be against HIM.
I’m interested in hearing the evidence admitted saying it is reasonably expected that people will place their toddlers on a railing to bang on glass. :rolleyes: