I can only think of Anthony jeselnik’s joke when this topic comes up…spoilers because it is a hijack and awful (and I can’t help but love it)
[Spoiler]Why did Eric Clapton’s kid die?
For inspiration.[/spoiler]
I hope the parents come to their senses and don’t proceed with the lawsuit against the cruise line. It somehow makes them less sympathetic, especially given how quickly they lawyered up. But apparently there is a high quality video showing the child fall, so that should shed light on things, if the Puerto Rican authorities ever release it. My hunch is that grandpa knew it was an open window, which is why he held her up to that one. It was a reckless, foolish thing to do, but I hope they don’t press criminal charges against him. The horror of his actions will haunt him for the rest of his life.
Charging this man is just adding tragedy on top of tragedy, but maybe that’s just me.
I agree he shouldn’t be charged. I wonder if, though, perhaps the authorities decided to charge ***because ***the family sued the cruise line? Maybe it made them unsympathetic to them?
I am iffy about whether he should be charged - I can see an argument for not charging him, because after all , the loss of his granddaughter will punish him far more than prison ever could, and there isn’t any need for “specific deterrence” - he’s never going to hold a kid up to a window so she can bang on the glass again. But on other hand , charging and trying him may provide more general deterrence - people might refrain from putting kids against what they believe is a closed window , or assuming that there are standards in place that wouldn’t allow open windows*. The absolute best case scenario is that Grandpa assumed the windows were closed and therefore failed to notice that this one was open - charging him makes it pretty clear to others that they should not make that assumption.
- The lawyer said “They are confused as to why the focus is on Sal when the bigger question is why Royal Caribbean wasn’t following the standards for the windows that are designed specifically to prevent a child from falling,” he said." What standards? It’s common for those windows to be open for ventilation - I’ve never been on an RCL ship and I’ve still seen it on every cruise I’ve been on and ships I’ve seen in port.
Unless you honestly believe that old grandfather intentionally murdered that baby, then arresting him is just compounding a tragic situation. Also, unless you believe that you can convince a jury of that, you are also wasting tax payer money.
Agreed.
You really believe the world works this way? You believe that there is a single person in the world whose impulsive decision to hold a child up to a window will be altered as a result of charging this grandfather? So, in your view, that person will have known about these events, remembered them, and not have been even slightly affected by the kid’s death but the additional recollection that grandpa was charged will dissuade them from this impulsively holding a baby up to a window? Or, in your mind, does the effect only work if grandpa is convicted? Are there scads of people, in your imagination, who will impulsively hold babies up to windows until the minute a guilty verdict is read? If grandpa is acquitted, will it send the wrong message to your imaginary baby-holders, who will now be emboldened to thrust babies near open windows with reckless abandon? I really just don’t get this.
Google the term “neglect homicide.”
Whether or not it’s a crime is a different question than whether or not it should be charged.
Justice is not being served by prosecuting the grandfather, in what was clearly an accident.
I do not believe that there is some corporate / governmental conspiracy to dissuade the family from suing the cruise line, but the criminal charge does put more of the responsibility on the grandfather.
I believe that there *might *be people who would assume that there is some sort of world-wide standard that requires that windows on cruise ships are to be incapable of opening, as this family seems to be claiming to believe. And it’s possible that more people will hear about it/remember it because the grandfather has been charged. So maybe a couple of them might decide to check the window before holding a kid up to it. Maybe. I certainly don’t believe there will be scads and I wouldn’t even say I’m sure there will be one. Just in the part you quoted, I used “iffy”, “may” and " might" - does that sound like I have a firm belief that even one person would be affected? I didn’t even say I think he should have been charged.
Really? You honestly think something like that couldn’t happen?! Dumb “I-can’t-believe-he-did-that” accidents happen every day. When I was in high school, a friend of ours was blade skating around his house and skated right through their patio glass door because he didn’t notice it was closed. This wasn’t an old man, mind you, he was 17 years old with excellent vision.
It is entirely possible that the grandfather thought that the open window was one pane of clear glass in a room surrounded by tinted panes of glass.
I think the old duffer opened the window himself for him and baby to get a better view -
I disagree. People are criminally punished all the time for what they consider to have been “accidents.”
I don’t know what specific charge is appropriate, but it seems pretty likely to me that the GF did breached his duty of care in a manner that was the direct cause of the child’s death. Not sure what the penalty ought to be, but I’m not offended by the idea that such carelessness ought to bear societally enforced repercussions.
Yeah, I think it pretty black and white. The idiot lifted the kid up to let her bang on the windows. Cruise lines are supposed to assume their passengers act like morons at hockey games? If he had not done so, the kid would have been in no danger from the open window. Even if the cruise line bears SOME PORTON of the responsibility, the lion’s share is on GF. It is unfortunate when a manufacturer/service provider bears responsibility for some consumer’s boneheaded misuse of the product/service.
When I’m in charge of my granddaughter, you’d better believe I make sure that I’m not dropping them out of any windows. It really is not hard to protect against. :rolleyes:
I realize this is a late reply but - “no accident, for whatever motive” - implying that the grandfather somehow willfully murdered the baby but wanted to pass it off as an accident? Why would someone think that?
It was in the context of a discussion on a true-crime website, so that accounts for why some people would think that. I myself see no reason to think this incident was anything other than an accident but people (usually parents) do intentionally kill kids.
Definitely. It’s easy, at least for some of us, through absent-mindedness to almost inflict serious injury on one’s-self or another.
In the state in which I live all apartments must have a lock device that can lock each window open with a gap less than 12.5cm (5 inches) This applies to any windows that open on to a two metres (6 1/2 feet) drop from the floor level of the apartment. So basically any apartment above the ground floor. They aren’t required if the window is more than 1.7 metres (5 1/2 feet) above the floor.
They are fitted to all my windows but are never used because I have never had a young child in the place.