I do not understand what your point is.
I believe you are incorrect. Here is the relevant passage in my immunology textbook.
It would seem to me that macrophages digesting antigens in a baby with maternal antibodies would present antigen epitopes bound to antibodies. As opposed to plain epitopes. This would explain the lowered immune response.
WhyNot
Thanks. Thats alot clearer.
I don’t believe that matters because as the macrophages engulf the bound epitopes it will all be degraded by cathepsins leaving just an array of small peptides to be presented. The antibody binding has no bearing on the degradation it just increases the ability to get engulfed.
I misread one of your previous comments and thought that what I wrote was correcting something in there. The IgM comment is true, but has no bearing. Sorry about that.
I’m going to look for some more information on early vaccinations. I don’t want to say that I don’t trust Kuby/Goldsby, but I have found numerous errors in the book in the past.
I believe the important thing about those small peptides is their 3d structure. Specifically the 3d structure on the surface of whatever the antigen itself is. If bound by an antibody then degraded I would imagine the 3d structure would still be changed. Seeing as how the immune system is exquisitely specific I think it would matter.
The MHC’s display peptide fragments ranging from 8-14 amino acids long. There is really going to be negligible 3d structure there. Additionally, the antibody binding is not mediated by covalent bonds but rather the weak forces (hydrogen bonding, hydrophobic forces, etc). The antibody will separate from the antigen in endosomes from both the acidity as well as the enzymes.
I’m sorry. You are correct. The above was speculation and I was shooting from the hip. It’s been along time since I took immunology.
I however still thought 3d structure must be relavant. Sequence alone can not possibly be specific enough to reliably distinguish self from non-self. In brushing up I found this figure on Wikipedia. A similar one can be found in my textbook. It explains to me how 3D structure is taken into account without it being present in the short oligos left after degradation.
Also, would you agree that maternal antibodies would interfere with the process in the picture? (antigen mediated activation of B cells) That should affect memory cell generation and therefore immunity.
IgG is the most common antibody found in the blood, but IgA is secreted by all mucosal surfaces, which is the vast majority of your body.
I knew one of the last Spaniards to survive polio. She got it at age 15 and spent decades blind and bedridden. You’ll never hear me complain about giving the polio vaccine to a kid of mine (“of mine” in any degree). A description of her and offering to give her surviving sister’s address to whomever is saying there’s no need for it anymore usually ends the discussion.
Illnesses which were all but gone 10 years ago are now becoming common again. About one in three subsaharian immigrants to Spain picked up by the Red Cross upon arrival testes positive for hepatitis; tuberculosis is relatively frequent - not just a positive for the test, but people who actually have the illness. While most of Spain is positive for TB antibodies, actually seeing it developed was extremely rare. There’s been outbreaks in at least two schools in the last year - for an illness that used to be something Madame Bovary had.
3D structure does matter (I did a presentation on protein folding and 3D structure as part of my MS, several of the examples were from antibody literature because medical stuff is good for calling and keeping people’s attention).
I haven’t heard this! We were encouraged to take the baby out, but cautioned about too much contact with people who had colds or flu - Butterbaby was born in November so there were plenty of those germs about. One decision we did make was that we would not sterilise anything. All her stuff has always just been washed in the sink like ours (no dishwasher…). We also al
I haven’t heard this! We were encouraged to take the baby out, but cautioned about too much contact with people who had colds or flu - Butterbaby was born in November so there were plenty of those germs about, and told these people should at least wash their hands before holdong her
One decision we did make was that we would not sterilise anything. All her stuff has always just been washed in the sink like ours (no dishwasher…). If her toys drop on the floor we just give them back - as long as they didn’t land in a puddle!
I have no cites as this is a personal observation but all my friends with children have their oldest one who is troubled with allergies, and the younger ones not. I am sure, as are they, that by the second one the sterilising and cleanliness worries are watered down and the younger siblings are in contact with a lot more ‘germs’.
Butterbaby has had all her jabs, bar the chicken-pox as she’s had the virus. She has MMR to go and will have it close to her first birthday. Small pox has been virtually erradicated thanks to immunisation programmes. I think it’s important, but again that’s a personal opinion.
Sorry about the double post, the baby was playing with the mouse and posted the first one, then I took too long writing the rest and went over my five minute edit window… Never try and post when you should have had a cup of tea…
