As a new parent, these two topics are certainly on my mind. We’re planning to vaccinate our daughter, but we are interested in the arguments of those who are opposed to vaccination.
I have an acquaintance who claims that because she is breastfeeding her children for several years, they will gain sufficient immunity to those childhood diseases that the mother has been vaccinated against. This person recently refused a tetanus shot after her child had been accidentally cut with a shovel(!) (The child is eight years old, and was breastfed until about age 4). Is this accurate? It seems farfetched to me.
No, I’m afraid she is offtarget there. Breastfeeding does help build your child’s immune system as a whole, but will have little effect against serious diseases such as tetanus, polio, etc. She was actually endangering her child. What problem did she think immunization was going to cause?
There is no known reason not to immunize a child who does not have other serious health issues or an already-compromised immune system, such as HIV.
Yow. I hope that her kids have had all their regular shots. BoringMom has done a fair amount of research on breastfeeding. Breastfeeding does carry with it some antibodies, and helps protect the child against some things like chickenpox for the first couple of months. But it does NOT replace typical vaccinations. Much good information on breastfeeding can be found at www.LaLecheLeague.org. Most important thing BoringMom found was that while breastfeeding is a natural thing, it does take practice for many people and it pays to talk to folks who have already done it and who have accurate information to dispell myths like the one above.
As for vaccines, put me down as pro. Anti vaccine people are relying on the rest of us to get our shots so that their nonimmunized child will never be exposed to the disease. Better hope the kid never goes overeas. In Iowa right now, a non-vaccinated student went to India, brought back measles. There are right now at least 20 people in quarantine in Jefferson County and others that got measles and are past the contagious period. http://www.ktvotv3.com/Global/story.asp?S=1756638&nav=1LFsLzjt
Said person was nice enough to have in layover in Michigan on his or her way home, causing a scare here.
We vaccinated for everything on schedule except for one thing. We waited on chicken pox until we were required to get it (my son started nursery school, and they required it–it’s also required for all public school kids). My doctor’s office considered it optional, actually–they thought it was one of these things where the drug companies had drummed up a demand that didn’t need to be there. The problem with something like varicella, however, is that once you’ve got “herd immunity” via widepread vaccination, you can’t count on your child getting the disease the usual way. That leaves them in danger of not getting it until, say, they’re much older when it can be more serious. So even if it weren’t required for school, if he hadn’t gotten CP by ten or so I would have gotten the vaccine for him anyway.
I’m not familiar with all the anti-vx arguments. I know the ones my doctor gave for a few. Some of the anti-vx stuff out there seems pretty hysterical. You don’t want your kid to get the diseases, and the vaccines have been tested and the risks are extremely low. However, some caution is warranted, and not all parents who question vaccines are loons. The rotovirus vaccine was recalled and is no longer given, for example (and something my doctor’s practice was leery of when it was on the market). How many parents refused that and were sneered at for being paranoid? But as BoringDad said, I wish some anti-vx parents would better appreciate that it is other (vaccinating) families who are making their choice possible and reasonable.
Breastfeeding is absolutely not a substitute for vaccination. While breastfeeding does provide some protection against disease, it’s passive - the child gets antibodies in the mother’s milk, but those only last a few months. Once those antibodies are gone, so is the protection. After 4 years, your friend’s kid definitely wasn’t protected any more, no matter what vaccinations his mother got in the past.
There may be an argument for breastfeeding longer to protect children against disease as there’s generally a gap between the time when mothers stop breastfeeding their children and the time when the immune system is fully mature and capable of mounting a proper response to infection, during which time the child is more vulnerable to disease, but I’m not sure how effective that would be.
If that’s a response to the end of my post, no it’s not necessary to go to those extremes. The immune system has trouble handling some types of pathogens before the age of 2, give or take a few months, but after that it’s fully developed.
As an interested party (*), I’m curious about the current immunity effects of breastfeeding: how much can we “depend” on breastfeeding to protect our daughter from various diseases during her first few months of life? She’s about a month old now, and we’re thinking about taking her to various places like the grocery store etc. where she may be exposed to lots more coughing people than when we take her on a walk outside. I’m all for exposing young kids to diseases (e.g., chicken pox) to build up their immune systems and prevent problems as adults, but I know that their immune systems aren’t fully developed at birth, so you don’t want them getting sick when they’re really young. The baby’s doctor said to wait until she’s at least a month old before going to anywhere crowded, but I’m curious as to how much breastfeeding can protect her after that point.
Thanks!
Cobalt
(*) In case anyone cares, I am Mr. ENugent. I.e., ENugent = Mrs. Cobalt. Oh, and I have no relation to Cobalt Blue
IANAD but my pediatrician said there was no reason to shelter my children from normal “public” outings beyond the first few weeks - that it was actually better for them to be exposed to normal germs, etc because that’s how their immunity develops - not just for chicken pox but smaller minor things. And, FWIW, I didn’t breastfeed at all.
It’s the germs they get when they’re 4 years old and going to preschool that start becoming headaches
Sigh. There is an claimed but unproven link between the MMR and autism.
There is also a concern about mercury used in the vaccines.
My doctor’s practice had a general caution about giving kids vaccines that weren’t necessary or which didn’t have enough supporting research (in their conservative view) to assure their safety or efficacy.
Beyond that, I do not know what the anti-vx arguments are, and I am not sure guessing will advance this debate.
Once-common childhood illnesses, while only a temporary nuisance for most children, did indeed have the capacity to cause serious and in some cases fatal complications - the risk being far greater than any that have been linked to the vaccines themselves. Here’s a site dedicated to refuting false anti-vaccination claims (caution - contains some disturbing photos).
Hey, is there any point in getting the chickenpox vaccine as an adult if you’ve had neither the illness nor the vaccine before? I had a bit of a scare a couple of years ago when my boss, who was in the same boat, somehow managed to come down with chickenpox at 33. (She spent her early childhood outside the U.S.)
I called my pediatrician’s office and had them pull my file, since Mom couldn’t remember whether I’d had the vaccine; I hadn’t, as it wasn’t invented until later. Chickenpox can be nasty if you get it as an adult, but is there any down side to getting the vaccine later in life?
We also had chicken pox go through the older kids, and the breast feeding several month old child did not get it. So, that’s a single anecdote for what it’s worth.
And yes, I advocated vaccinations but our first 2 kids did not get the chicken pox vaccine. It seemed silly to pay money for a vaccine that you can get for free by having a 5 year old breathe on your kid. Did vaccinate the last one since her sisters already had it and, as said before, too many other kids may now be vaccinated.
Please forgive me if I gave the impression that I believe in any way that vaccinations cause autism. I just mean, that the anti-vaccine crowd seems to spout that.
But I’ve read about mumps and measles and the like causing serious problems such as blindness, hearing loss, crippling people, brain damage from fever, etc.
I don’t remember if the chicken pox vaccine was available when I was a kid-I got it the old fashioned way. From my cousins in fact-I was six and my mom figured I’d better get it over with, so she sent me over to play with them. All I remember is feeling really ugly and itchy. The only lasting damage is the tiniest scar on my forehead.
So my question is-if they’re so uptight about causing autism, aren’t they worried about measles or rubella causing permanent brain damage?
Tetanus shots are NOT a vaccine; they are antitoxin (IOW, protect you from the toxins that infection with C. tetani produces (which are truly nasty; they cause all your muscles to spasm, and you die in this really hideous position with a rictus of facial muscles). IANAdoctor, but I did original pathogen research on another of the Clostridia under an immunologist who was internationally known for her research on “cell wall deficient” bacteria.
I am also old enough that I (and my mother) contracted whooping cough when I was 2.5 years old; it nearly killed both of us. And I lived through my childhood with the periodic polio scares. When the Salk vaccine came out, I took it. And when the Sabin vaccine came out, I took it (again).
I feel that anyone who does not have their child(ren) vaccinated for the serious diseases is practicing child endangerment. I do agree that having mercury in the preservatives of some vaccines was a Bad Idea, but they aren’t doing that anymore. Furthermore, ongoing research is showing that the cause of autism is a failure of the developing brain to kill off enough cells in certain parts of the brain (there was a report somewhere in the last year or so of Scientific American). Not mercury.
For anyone who really wants to know what the anti-vaccine crazies have to say, do a Google on the sci.xxxx newsgroups. A decade or so ago, I served my time as one of those trying to combat this particular brand of ignorance there, but finally realized that the anti-vaccine crowd weren’t listening; they were preaching, and used objections as an excuse to spout more.
When totnak was ten months old (and nursing), his big brother caught chicken pox. Our family doc asked if I was breastfeeding, and I said yes, and he said “Good! Whatever you do, don’t stop now.” The chicken pox vaccine, you understand, hasn’t been approved for use in Norway yet.
We waited it out. Thirteen days after flodjunior had his first spots, just when we thought the little guy might have gotten off easy, totnak had four pox on his belly. Slowly they spread up his chest and onto his face. And then something very strange and beautiful happened. The very next day the spots began to fade and disappear. We examined the baby every diaper change, and could literally see the difference from one inspection to the next. Within four days, the pox were gone and his skin was blemish free again.
So, while you are breastfeeding, breastmilk can give specific antibodies that work like a sort of vaccine. However, I was told that since totnak had such a mild case, thanks to my milk, he may not have made antibodies of his own. He might get chicken pox again, and if the vaccine becomes available before he does, we should ask for a titre before vaccinating him. The specific immunities do not last long. And no way I would have played the waiting game with TETANUS! :eek:
