Seen on T-shirts in Grand Junction, CO, which is only 30 miles east of the CO/UT border:
“Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you may be in Utah!”
I have mixed feelings about Utah - I think the state is beautiful, clean and scenic, but I have a lot of issues with the people.
My old boyfriend’s best friend worked as a ski instructor in Park City. One night, as he was riding his bike home from a friend’s house, he was struck and killed by a passing (Mormon) motorist.
The driver, who was drunk according to non-Mormon witnesses, was never given a breathalizer by the Mormon cop called to the scene. The driver was never arrested or charged with anything. He never apologized to the family.
Essentially, he murdered this kid, but because of his “standing” in the community, got away with it. Pathetic.
When we went to Park City for the memorial service, the dead kid’s family and friends spent a lot of time talking about the we vs. them attitude in the area. The Mormons always seem to win, though, at least they did in this case.
Pepperland, you misunderstood me. I suppose I should have asked you first if your religion has an afterlife where people become gods. Satanism has that but it extends into this life. Something that I don’t really spread around and I don’t think anyone here knows is that I am a former Satanist. No, we did not worship Satan it was really a total rejection of Christianity. After being in it for a while and studying it I realized it wasn’t the religion for me as it focused more on power, anger, and domination whereas the peaceful nature religions (which I belong to) focus more on harmony, love, and nature. That is not to say any religion is invalid since I believe a religion is whatever works for the individual. It was really an easy decision to change. Anyway, as Beakerxf pointed out that those people were anti-Mormons standing outside the temple that chased me down to give me the pamphlets. They pretty much only talked about Mormonism in the pamphlet and I don’t know if it was my personal recollection or not but it seemed pretty negative towards Mormons. There really were a lot of similarities in the pamphlet between Mormonism and the modern version of Satanism. I could do a comparitive analysis if you like but it would really serve no end because you would take offense to it and it would seem hurtful whereas I really don’t have an opinion of it. If you read my earlier disclaimer, I wrote anyone who was able to begin to think for themselves was not in the category that I wrote in earlier. I think you think for yourself so you are free. It was a generalization of what I felt the city was to me.
I think Pluto said it best when he said, “My personal belief is that the Mormon religion is flexible enough to accommodate most new ideas, but that the Mormon culture is very inflexible.” It was a culture shock to say the least. I knew I wouldn’t fit in there but thought it wouldn’t be as apparent as it was. It was shockingly apparent. From the clothes people wore to the attitudes people seemed to have. It was everywhere. I felt like I went on a timewarp into the eighties. The people still had early eighties hairstyles from the poofy bangs to the feathered hair. The clothes were still eighties throwbacks (blue jean jackets are so eighties, tight pants, everything pretty much there, I even saw some breakdancers in the many zippered parachute pants). It was odd. I even saw a few “punks” out and about who looked like the total eighties punks still wearing Misfits, Black Flag, and Minor Threat T-shirts. It was really like a timewarp. But that didn’t bother me, I just thought it was strange.
The one thing that really bothered me was when I went out to eat with my boss there. He is a very nice black man. We went to some cruddy diner that was around and when the little white hostess saw us come in (two white men and a black man) she ran back into the back of the room and ignored us for a while. We thought that she was busy but it really didn’t appear that the restaurant was busy. Eventually we were seated by the manager of the place. We got lots of strange looks and I wasn’t sure why really until I remembered that my boss was the only black person other than a few coworkers that I had seen in the city. I knew he felt it also but he was quiet about it. It was an awkward meal and we left. The service wasn’t too bad as the manager was the person who waited on us. It still took a while but it seemed that we violated some type of unspoken law there by simply showing up. I figured that also had something to do with the Mormon culture or simply the apparent lack of minority people that the city has so they never made the logical leap to treat people who are different like people. There was the same nasty experience with my excommunicated gay Mormon friend when the Mormon people saw him around and talked to him as there was with my boss, a slightly hidden contempt thinly covered with fake smiles.
I am sorry if my non-Mormon experience doesn’t match with yours Pepper but as Pluto said it is a pretty uninviting place to someone who isn’t the clone mold of those already there. I apologize to where you took offense earlier but the only things I know of Mormons come from my friend (albeit he is biased now) and some personal experiences (which actually have a mix of good and bad things). I know it is a place I never would fit in and it was really quite uncomfortable being there. I didn’t go there expecting much of anything. I figured that the people would be friendly on the surface, which they were, but I didn’t think that it would be so overwhelmingly uninviting. It was comparable to you going to a Voudoun (aka Voodoo) religious service in Haiti. You would be the ultimate white bread girl there since most of the Voudoun practitioners are black and their culture and practices would probably be quite offensive(with blood sacrifices) and pretty scary to you. I have been to a single Voudoun ceremony. It was interesting to me but only from a scientific standpoint. I was allowed to just sit and watch but not participate. That is off-topic. Anyway, I felt completely out of place (which I was) and was pretty creeped out from my total lack of belonging that I felt there. As I said before, there are few places where I feel that way and that was one of them.
HUGS!
Sqrl
I lived in provo for about 2 months, visitng SLC once to see the temple.
Provo is much more LDS than SLC.
I went to a pentecostal church a few times and was made to feel this was a “sin” or just not very bright.
You are kindof consdiered an outsider if you aren’t Mormon, and you are greatly encouraged to find the ONLY right way.
I used to love wearing sleeveless tops, as temple-worthy females could not because of the undergarments.
Also, it felt very freeing to go buy an iced tea (a capital sin apparently) and drink it!
Too many unneccessary rules.
It DID seem safer than Cleveland for sure, I have to give it that.
Yes, non-Mormons are consider lost til they find the only right way; others who are different don’t quite fit in. In fact, I also know a Mormon who is an ex-satanist; maybe you guys have more in common than you think…
I saw no black folk while I was there.
Hey Sqrl,
I lived in SLC for three years and relate very well to your experiences. But next time, don’t eat at Dee’s!
I know the area you were staying in and there are good restaurants around.
Red Iguana/Blue Iguana - killer Mexican/Mayan food.
Red Rock Brewery - good food, brew pub with excellent, though weak (again, the liquor laws), beer. Used to tourists and business travelers, you can bring your black coworkers there and they will be treated well.
Al Forno - very good Italian, mediocre service, but the food usually makes up for it.
All are in or near downtown, ask the front desk at the hotel for directions.
There is a bit of soul in SLC, too. It just takes some time to find.
Then again, I moved back to Minneapolis because I couldn’t stand it out there any more.
My best buddy lived in SLC for a couple of years. Transferred there for a really great job. He loved the skiing and the parks, but got quite tired of the religion.
Is there anywhere else in the U.S. where one particular religion is so prevalent permeating all aspects of society, government, education, culture? No matter how much you may like and believe in your chosen faith, I submit it is somewhat unexpected and unpleasant for a nonbeliever to be consistently treated as a lower form of life. I suspect most people don’t expect to encounter what resembles a religious state within the U.S. And when they do encounter it, it bothers them.
My buddy got a new job in San Diego. He has lived all over the country, and I’ve never heard him complain about a religion/culture the way he did about SLC.
Sqrl, thank you for your thoughtful post. I appreciate it. You did receive anti-Mormon propaganda, and I’ve seen those before. They are like Chick Tracks, if you know what I mean.
I’m also rather sensitive, seeing as how I recently moved from Utah. I lived about 30 miles from SLC. Now I have the problem of being looked down upon, cast into hell, mocked, laughed at, etc etc on a daily basis by my Christian “Friends”
I do know what it’s like in Utah for minorities. If you have seen my pic on the people pages, my BF is black. It was very difficult, because some people are blatantly racist, and some people are just ignorant.
The bottom line is, Utah is home for me. And when you feel your home threatened, sometimes you get defensive. But again, thank you so much for your post, explaining things, w/o flaming me. I’m glad that everything is cleared up, because I enjoy you and your posts greatly. Again, thank you.
Is it tough being a non-Mormon in Utah? Yeah. And I’m not happy about that. But please, please, understand that it’s not the RELIGION creating problems, it’s a few of the people IN the religion. If you want to blame Mormons fine, but don’t say “The Mormon Church”, because that’s simply not the case. It’s NOT the Church on a whole.
And BTW, you should have gone to Park City. You would have felt at home there. It’s the most non-Mormon city in the whole state. It’s very beautiful, ESPECIALLY this time of year.
Thanks again Pepperland. I know not everyone is like that and having the pamphlet guy be anit-Mormon makes sense because he didn’t actually go onto the temple grounds.
I totally realize that it is a culture thing that makes it feel so uncomfortable for me. And it doesn’t even have to be the culture as a whole to be that way. There were enough people around that made it noticeable for me.
I would have liked to go away from the city and seen more at the time but I didn’t bother renting a car while I was over there. I couldn’t find much to do from my Damron’s guide and even the things that it had listed had gone out of business in a large part by the time I got there.
HUGS!
Sqrl